Hello I am Bardarok a long time Pathfinder Player and GM (started with DnD 3 and played PF1 for years before jumping to PF2). I am usually a generous GM who likes creative solutions and a bit of improvisation. I try to keep the players balanced with each other so that it is fun for everyone but also I like allowing a bit more freedom than a strict RAW interpretation of the game.
Looking for two to three players (I already have two) for a play by post game running the Mosquito Witch Scenario in Pathfinder 2e.
The game will be run on an established Discord PbP Server and I expect it to take one to two months to run through the entire scenario. It took just over a month for me to run Mountain of Sea and Sky via PbP. Hoping to start middle of next month so we are looking at a Mid Feb through early April as a likely time period for this.
The expectation is that you post at least once every 48 hours.
I have some house rules that I want to try out so please take a look at those to see if they inspire/deter you before you comment.
This is running a PFS scenario but it is not an official organized play game.
Generally this is a friendly server where we mostly play in various PbP games but sometimes chat about non PF2 stuff in #general. You don't need to participate in the general chat at all but please do not be disruptive.
Character Creation and House Rules:
Maneuvers
If a weapon/unarmed strike has a maneuver trait (Trip, Disarm, etc.) and also has the finesse trait you can substitute your Dexterity modifier for your strength modifiers when making that maneuver with that weapon/unarmed strike.
Familiars with Manual Dexterity can activate items that can be activated using only interact actions, such as alchemical elixirs, but cannot perform other types of activation
Bards are proficient with all simple weapons plus one martial weapon of their choice instead of just those listed in their class description. Their proficiency with those weapons scales as normal for their “class weapons”.
Monk
The dueling spear, meteor hammer, katana, and wakizashi have the Monk trait.
Rogues are proficient with all martial weapons with the agile or finesse properties not just the ones listed in the class. Their proficiency with those weapons scales as normal for their “class weapons”
Wizards are proficient with all simple weapons instead of just those listed in their class. Their proficiency with those weapons scales as normal for their “class weapons”
Finally I add the following homebrew spell just so Electric Arc has a little bit of competition.
Ember Burst (Cantrip 1)
Cantrip, Evocation, Fire
Tradition: Arcane, Primal
Cast: 2 actions (somatic, verbal)
Range: 25 ft
Area: 5ft burst
Saving Throw: Basic Reflex
~~~
You conjure a burning ember that flies towards your enemies before exploding dealing fire damage equal to 1d4 plus your spell casting modifier
Heighten +1: The damage increases by 1d4
Server Wide Rules:
This is a community where all are welcome. Harassment of any form will not be tolerated. We are LGBTQ+ friendly and any form of bigotry, racism, or sexism is explicitly not allowed on this server.
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If you are interested comment below introducing yourself and proposing what character you would be interested in playing. I'll share thees with the existing players and we will decide who we want to extend an invitation to.
The Recall Knowledge, Additional Knowledge Rules state:
"Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject."
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=565
Now suppose a Thaumaturge is fighting a group of four enemies of the same variety, let's say Vampire Spawn. The use find Weakness on the first Spawn and the DC is a normal Level based DC. They kill that one. Now they want to Use Find Flaws on a second one is the DC another noromal DC because its a new individual or is it a hard DC now since it's another recall knowledge on the topic of Vampire Spawn?
If it's the first one than fighting groups is essentially a way to get around the increasing difficulty of Recall Knowledge checks. If it's the second Thaumoturges (and to a lesser extent mastermind rogues and others with recall knowledge based abilities) have a severe disadvantage vs groups of similar enemies as their ability becomes harder and harder to proc.
Am I missing something? I want to playtest this properly but this playtest is pointing out how unclear the recall knowledge rules are.
The core odd level features are martial classes in PF2 are their defining characteristics. A character might spend all of their class feats from level 2 up on an archetype but a Barbarian will always have rage, a Ranger will always have hunt target, and a Gunslinger will always have their Way and their Deeds.
Unfortunately Deeds are pretty underwhelming from levels 1-8. I understand that the Gunslinger also gets higher proficiency but comparing directly to the Fighter the Deeds are less interesting and build defining than lvl 1 AoO (and the gunslinger has less HP to boot)
I think that in the final version the level one deeds should pack a little more punch. Something that makes you think "that's a gunslinger" rather than that's an ability that is largely useless if you are already expecting trouble and have your guns drawn.
Rules Text: "You tamper with a foe’s weapon or armor. Choose either a weapon held by an enemy in your reach or a suit of armor worn by an enemy in your reach. Attempt a Crafting check against the enemy’s Reflex DC.
Critical Success Your tampering is incredibly effective. If you tampered with a weapon, the enemy takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls and damage rolls with that weapon. If you tampered with armor, the armor hampers the enemy’s movement, causing them to be flatfooted and take a –10-foot penalty to their Speeds. Either effect lasts until the enemy interacts to remove the effect.
Success Your tampering is temporarily effective. As critical success, but the effect ends after 1 round even if the enemy hasn’t Interacted to end it.
Critical Failure Your tampering backfires dramatically, causing a small explosion from your own tools or gear. You take fire damage equal to your level."
Is this a sunder type thing where you hit the weak point of the item with the weapon or are you reaching out with your hand to do this?
Does it require a free hand? If not does it use your weapons reach?
I was talking with ClanPsi on a different site and reached the conclusion that I think the different styles should add alternate key ability options just like the rogue rwckets. Braggart and Fencer would add a Cha option, gymnast would add Str as an option.
Additionally I think there really needs to be a style/option where you can get pinache from disarming. I mean it's the ability on the iconic swashbuckling weapon the rapier.
Due to a bunch of good but big life changes right around the time PF2 was released I didn't actually get a chance to play the final product untill yesterday.
I ran Torment and Legacy (expanded a bit to make it three acts instead of two) yesterday with a group of PF1 and DnD 5e players and we had a blast. So even though I'm super late to the party I just want to say good job Dev team! The game is good and I'm excited to launch a new campaign using the system once I finish converting my Homebrew world.
I want to introduce an archetype which enables characters to expand their proficiency level with armor/weapons and keep up with those provided by their class. I also wanted to make the champion and fighter archetypes dedication feats more worth it for martial. So I homebrewed some things which I am considering allowing in an upcoming game.
Champion Dedication now grants a lesser champions reaction instead of armor training. Added a level 20 feat diverse armor master which does what you would expect; requires master proficiency in one armor and expands it to all armors.
Fighter Dedication now grants a lesser attack of opportunity instead of weapon training. Lowered diverse weapon expert to level 6 (still requires expert in at least one weapon) so that now rogues can use it to expand their weapon options to make a slayer-ish rogue. Introduced diverse weapon master as a level 14 feat for the same purpose, requires master proficiency in some weapon.
Martial Archetype. A simple archetype which can be used to add armor/weapon proficiency and HP. Casters can use this to get basic martial competency. non-casters can use this to expand their weapon proficiency or their armor proficiency without dedicating themselves to a deity.
The current hot topic on the forums is scaling proficiency and I want to take a stab at some homebrew rule to try and fix the issue. I don't want to make a new thread for discussing if it is a good or a bad idea there are plenty for that. I am starting from the position that a homebrew rule is desirable and trying to figure out exactly what form such a rule should take.
Goals
1. A character who spends a feat to gain weapon or armor proficiency should have their proficiency scale such that it never becomes a blatantly sub-optimal choice to use the thing they spent a feat to get.
2. Because proficiency is a deliberately gated class feature you should not be able to increase your highest armor/weapon proficiency level through feats.
3. Lets fix alchemists, sorcorrers, and iori worshipers while we are at it
4. Try not to mess up anything
5. Be as succinct and clear as possible
Proposed Rules Whenever a class feature increase your proficiency level with a weapon or with unarmed strikes to expert or higher your proficiency with unarmed strikes and all weapons which became trained via a feat increases to the same level.
Whenever a class feature increase your proficiency level with armor or with unarmored defense to expert or higher your proficiency with unarmored defense and all armors which became trained via a feat increase to the same level.
That fixes a lot of problems with sorcerers and alchemists unarmed strikes but a few things still need cleaned up.
The level 13 weapon expertise ancestry feats are no longer useful and should be removed.
The level 12 Fighter MCA feat Diverse Weapon Expert is no longer useful. I propose it grant critical weapon specialization with all weapons instead.
the level 14 Champion MCA feat Diverse Armor Expert is no longer useful. I propose it grant armor specialization effects instead.
Weapon Proficiency general feat is now really powerful, I think maybe it should be nerfed and split up something like:
Weapon Proficiency (General 1)
You become trained in all simple weapons. If you are already trained in all simple weapons choose one weapon group and you become trained in all martial weapons in that weapon group.
Advanced Weapon Proficiency (General 1)
Prerequisite: Trained in all martial weapons from at least one weapon group.
Choose a weapon group where you are trained with all martial weapons in that group. You become trained with an advanced weapon from that group.
The last thing that I think needs accounted for is the fighter, they gave features which specifically boost a single weapon group so in that case I might add text like this
Fighter Weapon Mastery
add: Weapons which you have become trained in through feats that are not part of the chosen weapon group stay at expert proficiency.
Weapon Legend
add: Weapons which you have become trained in through feats that are not part of the chosen weapon group advance to master proficiency not legendary.
Have I missed anything major here? Is there a better way to make this fix? Is it too OP?
I really like how you folks (Piazo) are stressing storytelling, and being able to tell the same sort of stories as you did in PF1.
The abilities gained during character creation feel organic and stresses that the PCs are unique and interesting characters, not just sheets of paper filled with abilities.
With holidays coming up we might not have time to finish the last chapter before then and if we aren't going to be generating useful data we will probably just not play it.
Was running a long and boring X-ray experiment this afternoon so I had a chance to write up some Twitch stream stuff here is the top 5 update section
Top 5 Updates coming in update 1.5
Jason’s note on updates: They are managing the playtest as a process so they don’t want to update too much too quickly so Paizo is aware of problems and are taking them seriously even if they don’t implement large updates every two weeks. “Updates are concise, straightforward and focused on things they want data for”
5. Update on updates. Removed redundant rules changes so that even with new rules update 1.5 is fewer pages than 1.4
4. Adjustments to a few encounters to Doomsday Dawn part 6 and 7 to make them slightly less difficult
3. DC for treat wounds is now determined by the highest level patient. Not the level of the doctor. Likely not a final version since treat wounds is a work in progress and they are looking to gather more data on it.
2. Death and Dying update: Death save is a flat check instead of a fort save based on monster level. DC of the check is based on your dying condition. They might go back to the monster based one and just include a death DC on the stat block so consider this kind of an A B test of this system.
1. They have done a “tuning pass” on the majority of damage dealing spells and increased the damage of most of them. Also they acknowledge and agree that spells need buffing but so far the easiest to implement in an update is damage dealing spells. Scaling is not affected
Examples:
Burning Hands
Did 2d6 now does 3d6
Chain lighting
Was 7d12 now is 9d12
Meteor Swarm
Did 3d10 Bludgeoning and 14d6 Fire
Now 4d10 Bludgeoning and 19d6 Fire
Started this on the main thread for the resonance test update but since it is off topic of the test I am starting a new thread.
As is my group isn't going to be able to test all of Doomsday Dawn before the end of the year so there isn't a realistic chance of me playtesting the new resonance rules. So to that end I read the rules and have some opinions to share and a suggestion for a slightly simplified system.
First off I like the flat ten for resonance though that seems like a good change relative to PF 1.
Focus is fine in concept but as written it is too complicated. IMO The mechanic is not interesting enough to keep around if there are still x/day magic item abilities to keep track of.
Suggestion:
Make all activated items (not consumables) require focus to activate each time. Remove X/day limitations for using magic items. Keep focus as a super-charge for consumables.
Increase Focus accordingly by just making it the sum of two modifiers one of which is always Charisma.
Wizards Focus = Int mod + Cha Mod
Bard/Paladin/Sorcerer Focus = 2x Cha Mod
(As shroudb pointed out this might be too powerful. Personally I think it is okay since in the first draft Cha casters get both a spell point and a resonance point out of each Cha mod increase but if it is too powerful we could split of the classes in a different way
Sorcerer Con + Cha
Paladin Wis + Cha
Bard Int + Cha)
Monk/Druid/Cleric Focus = Wis mod + Cha mod
etc.
Martial Focus = Cha Mod (Maybe a general feat to add another ability modifier if you want to use a lot of activated items)
Multiclassers get to choose what the non-Cha modifier is based on their classes.
Still an intensive to boost Cha but you can make a non-charismatic wizard if you want and still have access to your class abilities.
Dedication feats are more powerful than normal feats.
Does this make characters with archetypes more powerful than characters without them? I think once we have more archetypes this may be the case.
To help balance this should classes come with built in archetypes? E.G. specialist wizard is a "build in" archetype with a correspondingly more powerful dedication feat? Barbarian totems are "built in" barbarian archetypes and so on?
Thoughts? Am I worried about nothing? Is this too much like 5e's sub-classes? Would that be a bad thing?
On P. 178 (equipment)it says:
UNARMED ATTACKS
You can Strike with your fist or another body part, calculating your attack and damage rolls in the same way you would with a weapon. This counts as a simple weapon, so almost all characters start out trained in unarmed attacks. Use the statistics for a fist even if you’re kicking, kneeing, or attacking with another part of your body. Some ancestry feats, class features, class feats, and spells give access to special, more powerful unarmed attacks.
On p.419 (appendix) it says
Unarmed An unarmed attack is made using your body rather than a manufactured weapon. An unarmed attack isn’t a weapon, though it’s categorized with weapons for weapon tables and weapon groups, and it might have weapon traits. Because it’s a part of your body, an unarmed attack can’t be Disarmed. It also doesn’t take up a hand, though a fist or other grasping appendage follows the same rules as a free-hand weapon.
Which leaves us in the confusing position where unarmed strikes are not weapons but they count as weapons. So my question is what is the limit of counts as a weapon?
Some Specific Questions:
1. Magic weapon targets weapons but probably shouldn't work on unarmed attacks, unless it is supposed to?. So are unarmed attacks weapons for this case?
2. The Druid Feat Savage Slice intuitvly seems like it should work with Wild Claws ability or wild shape but it calls out "Your last action was a weapon Strike that dealt slashing damage." and "Make another Strike against the same target using the same weapon. If it hits, add an additional die of damage." Do slashing unarmed attacks (claws) count as weapons in this instance"
3. The whole Barbarian class repeatedly calls out weapon strikes and unarmed attacks as if they are separate things citing in Rage "Gain a +2 conditional bonus to damage rolls with melee weapons and unarmed Strikes" and in Weapon Fury "Your proficiency rank for simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks increases to expert." But if unarmed strikes count as simple weapons wouldn't just raising simple weapon proficiency to expert be enough?
Basically I am confused as to what exactly "counts as a simple weapon" means in regards to unarmed attacks. For what purposes does it count as a simple weapon?
Currently Armor Check penalty applies to strength, dexterity, and constitution based skill checks unless they have the attack trait. This works for most things but it has a few odd results specifically there are some skill uses which, despite being dex based, I don't think should have an armor check penalty, specifically things that just involve the hands not the whole body:
Stealth(Conceal on Object)
Theivery(Disable Device & Pick Lock)
You could also make a case for Acrobatics (Grab Edge) though that is less straightforward.
Additionally this makes Break Open an Attack which I don't really think it should be.
I propose that the armor check penalty become a tag that certain skill uses have (climb, jump, swim, stealth, tubmble etc.) rather than the default for all Str, Dex, and Con based skill checks.
We had session zero last night and did character creation. Overall it took 3 hours and 20 minutes to explain the basics of the game and of Golarion to the players as well as go through the intro info for Doomsday Dawn and make three characters in sequence.
I have four players though one couldn't make session zero. Three are experienced PF 1 players and one has never played a tabletop rpg, he is playing the rogue so I'll spay special attention to his experience in the playtest.
Characters
Thundarr: Half-Orc, Mind Quake Survivor, Barbarian (War-Flail, Dragon Totem)
Flint: Dwarven, Esoteric Scion, Paladin (Bastard Sword, Sarenre)
Prezz: Elf, Goblin Renegade, Rogue (He is an elf who speaks and works with goblins) (Rapier & Short sword dual wielding)
Due in part to the skill feats their backgrounds provided the PCs spread their ability boost around a bit such that the Rogue has an 18 in Dex but the Barb and paladin only have 16 in Str, we will see how that goes.
They have a lot of knowledge skills between them but not a lot of healing just the paladins lay on hands and the paladin and rogue are trained in medicine.
Character creation took about 45 minutes per player. I used an auto filling sheet to do the math so it would have taken an hour per player if I was doing it pen and paper. Blank Sheet v4
GM Review
Character creation was all logical no one got confused or overwhelmed by options which is good. They are all excited to play the actual adventure next week so that is good as well. No one blinked at the proficiency system they just took it as the new normal for this game and rolled with it. I'm jealous of their lack of overthinking this stuff.
Two criticisms from session zero:
1. Heavy armor doesn't seem worth it. The Paladin and the Rogue have the same AC and the rogue has better TAC. I'd think with the ACP and the speed penalty heavy armor would be better not just equal but I guess the heavy armor character gets to spread their ability boosts around to something other than dex.
2. Rogue doesn't have a lot of build weapon options. Max dex with rapier and short sword seems to be clearly the best. That's not particularly different from PF 1 though I just wish there was more support for a Str rogue, of course maybe its there and I just don't see it since the rogue PC is dex based.
If they are open to switching ancestry boosts around I would prefer that elves be a +Wis ancestry instead of a +Int and similarly Dwarves be +Int instead of +Wis.
This would mean that elves have a natural predisposition to be good at perception, nature, and survival which are all very elfy things and dwarves would be naturally good at Crafting and History which seems very dwarfy.
Am I alone in this opinion? Is there just too much inertia or Golarion lore for this to be a reasonable change for PF2? I've actually been doing this as a simple homebrew rule for years and will end up doing so even if it isn't changed officially but I like it and thought it was worth at least bringing up in case others felt the same.
I have played Pathfinder since 2010 but I have never played in Golarion. I understand that the core rule book for second edition will be Golarion Infused which I am fine with but I would like to express my hope that the Golarion lore is clearly identified such that I can easily tell my players to just ignore those section when playing in a homebrewed world. I think this would also help third party publishers know what they can safely use under the OGL.
For example in ancestries I hope they do something like
Dwarves
General Description (similar to the current CRB which is relatively generic fantasy)
Dwarves are a stoic but stern race, ensconced in cities carved from the hearts of mountains...
In Golarion Section
In Golarion dwarves live in the nation of [blank] and do [blank] to [blank] for [blank] [blanks] a [blank]... *
*I don't actually know what dwarves do in Golarion
The DnD 5e players handbook has a lot of little subsections that describe how races exist in specific DnD proprietary campaign settings and I think it works well. It shouldn't be limited to just ancestries either of course.
Of course that's probably more of a concern for the actual release than the upcoming playtest but still I wanted to put my hope out there.
I got Drop Dead Studio's Champions of the Spheres a while back and I was a bit disappointed that there was no "generic" gish class similar to the Incanter in SoP and the Conscript in SoM. So I tried my hand at making one.
For the most part it is what you would get from a multiclassed Incanter 10/Conscript 10 but I wanted to streamline it a bit. So I used the blended training idea from champions of the spheres and I remixed the specializations so that instead of 5 specialization points for incanter and 5 for the conscript each of which only benefit from half of total character levels instead the gish gains 2 incanter specializations and 2 conscript specializations which progress with gish levels. This bars them from the 3 point sphere focus specializations which I think should be kept as conscript/incanter only.
I also added a 2 point specialization which allows them to use their gish level as their caster level or BAB for one magic or combat sphere. And another one that gives extra skills.
Please take a look and leave any suggestions or comments either here or on the document.
Rolling a natural 20 and failing to crit is always a disappointment. Yes the automatic hit rule is cool but rarely will a PC be fighting something that a roll of 20 would not be enough to hit anyways. So to address this, without completely destroying critical balance, I propose the following house-rule for your consideration:
Natural 20
When you roll a 20 on an attack roll your attack always hits and deals double damage this is a critical hit.
Higher than x2 crit multiplier
If your crit multiplier is higher than x2 when you roll a natural 20 you still make a critical confirmation roll. On a success you use your weapons crit multiplier. On a failure you use x2, this is still considered a critical hit and the x2 bonus damage can be negated by some effects.
Expanded threat range
If you threaten a critical hit on anything other than a 20 that is resolved using the vanilla rules.
The idea is to make a natural 20 slightly more satisfying without breaking the game. Any thoughts?
I was looking at druid animal companions and was annoyed by how the lion (big cat) seems to just be better than every other option that isn't a dinosaur. Does anyone know of a resource where the animal companions are balanced better in comparison to each other? I don't want players to feel like they are making a sub-optimal choice if they choose anything other than a lion (I don't allow dinosaurs because setting).
If I attempt to rebalance them myself should I leave lions alone and buff everything else or nerf lions down to the level of a wolf or some other balance point?
Hi All, I am starting a new campaign this weekend with a character who wants to play a mobile TWF barbarian. I want to make TWF and all combat a bit less full attack dependent so that combat is a bit more mobile. So I am proposing the following.
1. All characters can move before and after an attack (or spell or any other std action) up to their total movement.
2. At BAB +11 characters can make their first two attacks as a standard action.
3. Improved TWF gives the ability to make an offhand attack as part of a standard action. So a character using TWF with BAB +11 could make up to three attacks as a standard action two with the main hand one with the off hand.
4. Haste can give a bonus attack as part of a standard action attack but the bonus attack suffers a -5 penalty
I'd probably do a flurry of blows fix but I don't have a monk in this game so I am not going to. Any thoughts on this?
I am playing around with replacing +X items in my game again. For replacing +X weapon items specifically I am considering boosting the ability of characters to attack by allowing them to make all attacks as a standard action with the normal -5 per extra attack penalty. Additionally characters would be able to make a full attack using their highest bonus for all attacks e.g.
BAB ----- Std Attack ----- Full Attack
+6 ----- +6/+1 ----- +6/+6
+11 ----- +11/+6/+1 ----- +11/+11/+11
+16 ----- +16/+11/+6/+1 ----- +16/+16/+16/+16
I know this has the potential to sow down play but I require (and provide) color coded dice for making multiple attacks so I don't think it will inconvenience us too much.
My question is how much more powerful do you think this is over core assuming that the characters have no access to +X enhanced weapons. They do have access to special materials for bypassing damage reduction, and at higher levels access to some weapons with special qualities.
So I have been considering having a campaign that goes with the classic idea of the PC's being the players themselves who have been transported into a world of myth and magic.
I was thinking about having everyone start as level 4 Experts with a standard array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. Plus the human +2 to any one score (+1 one more for being level 4). After they get brought into the game world they quickly gain one level in a Adventuring PC Class and can increase their stats somehow (I was thinking +4 to one stat +2 to two one mental and +2 to one physical).
I am sure there are a lot of things that would need to be worked out for this to be viable and would like to start a conversation on this topic.
I was considering having real world achievements be the basis for feats examples:
Real World -> Pathfinder
Black Belt -> Improved Unarmed Strike
College Major -> Skill Focus(Knowledge_______)
Career -> Skill Focus(Profession/Craft_______)
Marathon Runner -> Endurance
Fencer -> Martial Weapon Proficiency that transforms into WF Rapier if they gain a level in a martial class
I was also considering having real world skills provide either synergy bonuses or one to one correlations to more normal Pathfinder skills.
Knowledge(Chemistry) -> Craft(Alchemy)
Computer Use, Knowledge(Mathematics), Knowledge(Physics) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Arcane) and/or Spellcraft
Knowledge(Biology) -> Synergy to Knowledge(Nature) and/or Heal
Profession(Salesperson/Recruiter/etc.) -> Diplomacy
Craft(Artwork)-> Synergy to Perform?
Obviously a lot of things would need to be worked out. I am curious to see what other people think. What real world accomplishments do you think would correlate to feats in Pathfinder? What correlations would real world skills have to pathfinder skills?
I'm currently working on a Wordpress website to keep all my homebrew stuff on and in the past I have used word documents, pdf's, facebook groups, and Google drive none of which really felt optimal to me. This got me wondering how does everybody else organize and distribute their homebrew materials to their players?
I have been working on a homebrew ruleset that I can use to maintain character power level so that they can fight high CR monsters while at the same time making all found magic items rare and special. There will be four parts to this ruleset, three of which can be found in the Document here:
Part 1: Hero Bonuses
This is a pretty common idea on the forums automatic bonuses to attack, damage, saves, ac to replace the big six. I also include additional ability score increases from leveling up to replace belts and bands.
Part 2; Craft(Armaments)
This class skill for marital characters allows them to craft a limited number of masterwork items empowered by their inherent magic (flavor wise even fighters are magic, magically good at fighting). At low level these function like normal masterwork items but at higher levels these weapons gain magical qualities through superior weapon maintenance. (can be bought and sold but without upkeep from a high level character they revert to normal masterwork items)
Ex: Thrag the Fighter knows all about swords he sharpens his sword every day, eventually this repetitive act empowers his sword with the keen ability. As long as Thrag spends some time performing weapon upkeep every week his sword will stay magically sharp.
Part 3: Craft (Alchemy)
Kind of re skinned alchemy here to replace potions and low level scrolls. Alchemists have an alchemical power level which increases with both character level and total Craft(Alchemy) skill bonus. This determines how many potions they can make is a day how long those potions last (limited shelf life cannot be stockpiled) and how powerful those potions are: Alchemists bombs, healing potions, toxin, and other magic brews can all be made with Alchemy.
Ex: Thrashex Endarious the slayer knows that he is going to be fighting some trolls soon so he makes up some alchemists firebombs to burn them all up. He needs to do this a few days beforehand because his potions are only viable for about a week.
Part 4: Wondrous Items and Magic Foci,
I am currently converting to Spheres of Power, once I am done with that I will look into making a Craft(Occult) skill for making magic rods, staves, and wondrous items. (which will require upkeep from their creator to keep working)
This is supposed to replace wealth by level entirely. There will be some additional magic items (I'm thinking like 1 per PC per five levels) but they will be designed specifically to be special and useful indefinitely.
So if you are interested and/or have any thoughts or comments please let me know. Play testing is happening currently so I can't really comment on that yet. Balance wise I think this is a net power increase over RAW, not as much as like gestalt but still significant, I am fine with that and will just throw bigger meaner (more interesting) baddies at the PCs.
So I've been working on the homebrew races for my campaign world and decided to decouple racial and cultural bonuses here is my idea.
Every race gets a set of racial bonuses and optional cultural bonuses. A member of the race not raised in the standard culture can instead choose one bonus feat to represent their upbringing.
Example: Dwegar (read dwarf)
Dwegar Racial Traits +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma: Dwegar are both tough and crafty but their gruff and straightforward natures make them hard to relate too.
Medium Size: Dwegar are Medium creatures and receive no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Slow and Steady: Dwegar have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
Darkvision: Dwegar can see in the dark, darkvision 60ft. (only playable race in my homebrew with darkvision)
Low-Light Vision: Dwegar can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Dwegar Resistances: Dwegar are immune to paralysis, phantasms, and poison. They also gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. This poison immunity means that while Dwegar do get drunk they never get alcohol poisoning, never vomit from over drinking, and never have hangovers. This makes partying with the Dwegar rather exhausting.
Khuzdul Dwegar Cultural Traits Crafting: Khuzdul Dwegar get +2 Bonus on Craft(Arms and Armor) checks. This bonus increases to +4 with 10 ranks invested in the skill.
Weapon Familiarity: Khuzdul Dwegar are proficient with battleaxes, greataxes, warhammers, and greathammers additionally they treat the waraxe, and maul as martial weapons not exotic (strength requirements for proficient wielding remain).
Languages: Khuzdul Dwegar begin play speaking Common and Khuzdul. Dwegar with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Imperial, Orcish, Elven, Gruck or Terran
Dwegar not raised amongst the Khuzdul Dwegar can instead choose one bonus feat of their choosing to represent their upbringing. Additionally they begin play speaking common and the dominant language of the region.
I think that the Shaman's spirit animal should not be identical to the wizards familiar. The main reason for this is that i think of spirit animals as the big north american animals more often than small ones; elk, bison, bear, wolf, etc. However simply giving them a druid animal companion would not work as that is a significantly more powerful ability. So I have tried my hand at making a Spirit Animal alternative to the familiar ability, hopefully it is balanced, likely it is not. I have yet to actually use a shaman but was looking at making one as an NPC but wanted them to have a bison companion sooo....
I'm interested in how other folks implement the Paladin's code. Or if you implement codes for other classes like the Cleric.
RAW
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Here is what I add on.
A paladin must attempt to give mortal (human elven orc dwarf etc.) enemies a chance to surrender and repent. If the attempt would put the lives of innocents in danger or if there is no reasonable way to return them to church custody they may forgo this. To aid them in this task paladins train to be able to better able incapacitate their foes. A paladin may choose to deal subdual damage with any weapon with no -4 penalty.
Against an evil immortal enemy (evil outsider, dragon, undead) the paladin is not required to fight honorably they may ambush, use poison, and lie if necessary.
A Paladin always has the right to ask the GM if an action they are considering taking is a violation of the code.
I have suggested a few times in the past on these boards that the Magus spellstrike ability should use both the weapons critical threat range and multiplier and that such a change would not increase the overall power of the magus because the average damage of 15% chance of x2 is equal to the average damage of the other extreme 5% chance of x4. This of course is true regardless of what the base damage is weather a Lv. 1 1d6 damage shocking grasp of a Lv. 20 360 damage maximized, empowered, disintegrate.
I have been repeatedly told that I am wrong however I have not yet received a satisfactory explanation as to why. Please tell me what I am missing. Is there something inherently better about 5% chance of x4 compared to 15% chance of x2?
The only reason I can think of currently is death by massive damage which in my experience is not normally used.
EDIT: The Falcata is one other reason this would be a bad idea as it has a better critical than any other weapon statistically speaking.
Working on house rules for classes thought I'd post what I have so far in case anyone is interested.
Barbarian
Rage Points: Instead of x times/rage certain rage powers instead consume extra rounds of rage.
Barbarians also get 3 extra rounds of rage per level not just 2
Core Rulebook
Guarded Stance(1 round of rage per round instead of one use for Con rounds, cannot use with rolling dodge)
Clear Mind (2 rounds of rage, can only be used once per save)
Mighty Swing(6 rounds of rage)
Moment of Clarity(no cost can simply be used as many times as you want)
No Escape(1 round of rage)
Powerful Blow(1 round of rage)
Rolling Dodge(1 round or rage per round instead of one use for Con rounds, cannot use with guarded stance)
Strength Surge(2 rounds for a strength check, 4 rounds for a combat maneuver)
Surprise Accuracy(1 rounds of rage per 4 levels)
Unexpected Strike(4 rounds of rage)
APG
Elemental Rage, Lesser(2 rounds of rage)
Energy Eruption (8 rounds of rage)
Energy Resistance Greater (4 rounds of rage)
Flesh Wound(5 rounds of rage)
Ground Breaker(3 rounds of rage)
Knockdown(1 round of rage, only once per round)
Smasher(1 round of rage)
UC
Auspicious Mark(3 rounds of rage)
Eater of Magic(5 rounds of rage)
Hive Totem Toxicity(4 rounds or fage for the poison bite)
Spell Sunder(3 rounds of rage)
Sprint(2 rounds of rage)
Fighter
4+int skill points, Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Heal, are class skills (as the tactician archetype APG)
All feats which apply bonuses when using a single weapon apply to the entire weapon group for fighters
Favored Class option: Gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a free feat
Bravery is replaced by Unflinching, the bonus applies to all Will saves (as unbreakable archetype UC).
Most Fighter Archetype Powers can be Taken as Fighter Only Feat Trees.
Monk
Light armor does not interfere with monk abilities
Flurry of Blows: This no longer functions as two weapon fighting, instead whenever the monk makes a full attack he may choose to take a -2 penalty to all attacks made and gain an extra attack at his highest base attack bonus (BAB), this attack must be made with a monk weapon or an unarmed strike (note the normal attacks can be made with any weapon). At 8th level he can make an additional unarmed attack at his full BAB -5, and at 15th yet another at his full BAB -10. If used with the two weapon fighting feat all the flurry bonus attacks must be unarmed attacks and the penalties stack. A monk still treats his monk BAB as equal to his monk level when flurrying.
Example a 20th level monk who we shall call Raphael has the normal, improved, and greater two weapon fighting feats. Wielding a sai in each hand he decides to flurry and use two weapon fighting. He gets –2 to all attacks for two weapon fighting and -2 to all attacks for flurrying taking only has BAB and those penalties into account he gets +16/+11/+6/+1 with his main hand sai, +16/+11/+6 with his off-hand sai, and +16/+11/+6 unarmed attacks. Yes that’s ten attacks but he is a level 20 so why the balls not. He is also a turtle.
Magus
Spellstrike now uses the weapons critical multiplier in addition to the weapon's threat range
Here is a little homebrew to change up the skill system. The goal is to give non-casters some cool abilities as well as make class skills more significant. This is an incomplete first draft and if anyone has any input or suggestions I would be open to them. Thanks in advance!
Smaller Skill Changes:
I changed acrobatics to agility folding in escape artist and pulling out Jump so:
To Jump -> Jump skill check
To Balance, Tumble, or Escape Artist -> Agility
Class Skill Changes
Barbarian: loose acrobatics gains Jump
Paladin, Samurai: gain jump
Fighter: gains diplomacy and jump (also 4+Int)
Bard, Rogue, Ninja, Monk: loose acrobatics gain agility and jump
Due to homebrew changes to magic items there are no scrolls or wands so use magic device is suddenly way less useful therefore it has been removed. I also removed the appraise skill; instead it requires a relevant profession or craft skill check or of course an intelligence check.
Onward!
If a character has ranks in a class skill they gain special benefits. With one rank in a class skill they gain a +3 class skill bonus on all skill checks with that skill. With more ranks invested they gain additional bonuses relevant to that skill at 6, 11, and 16 ranks invested.
Skills and class bonus descriptions:
Agility
Special - with 3 or more ranks in acrobatics you gain +3 instead of +2 when fighting defensively, you gain +4 when taking the total defense action.
6 ranks- You may use your ranks in agility instead of your BAB for determining your CMB for avoiding a grapple.
11 ranks-You gain +2 dodge bonus to armor class and reflex saving throws when you are unencumbered and wearing light or no armor
16 ranks-You gain +10ft to your base movement speed when unencumbered and wearing light or no armor
Bluff
6 ranks-Feint as move action
11 ranks- If you fail to deceive someone you no longer have a -10 penalty to lie to them again as long as you admit you were lying then tell a new lie.
16 ranks-Bluff bonus (ranks+Cha+3+other bonuses) functions as spell resistance vs spells or spell like abilities which try to discern information from you (read thoughts, detect alignment, etc.)
Climb
6 ranks-climb at half your speed with no penalty, -5 penalty to climb at your whole speed
11 ranks-Climb with both feet but only one hand, your unused hand is free to cast a spell or wield a weapon or shield
16 ranks-Climb Speed equal to your base land speed
Craft
This is tied in with my alternative magic item crafting where you need to learn a recipe through a quest and find a special magic material to power the item but basically:
6 ranks- Craft Minor Magic Items (Minor Wondrous, +1-3 Weapons or armor)
11 ranks- Craft Medium Magic Items (Medium and some Major Wondrous, +4-6 Weapons and armor)
16 ranks-Craft Major Magic Items (Major Wondrous Items, +7-+9 Weapons and Armor)
And no it's not limited to spell casters anyone can do it.
Diplomacy
6 ranks-Sociable Feat*
11 ranks-You are no longer limited to adjusting an individual’s opinion of you by just two steps.
16 ranks- You gain followers as per the leadership feat except you use your ranks in diplomacy as your leadership score with no additional modifiers. (note the leadership feat is not otherwise allowed)
Disable Device
6 ranks- disable tricky devices in 1d2 rounds and difficult devices in 1d4 rounds
11 ranks- Pick locks as a standard action
16 ranks- Disable golems as a full round action which requires a successful touch attack and a disable device check DC = 20+their hit die*2
Disguise
6 ranks- No penalties for disguising yourself as a different gender, or age
11 ranks- Creating a disguise requires 3d6 minutes instead of 1d3 x10.
16 ranks-No penalties for disguising yourself as a different size or race
Heal
6 ranks – Asses Condition – Standard action make a heal check to determine the hit points of a creature.
Animal, Humanoid or Vermin DC 10
Dragon, Fey, Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid, Plant DC 20
Aberration, Outsider, Undead DC 30
Construct, Ooze – can’t be done.
Special-Allies who you know closely can have their condition assessed as a swift action with no check.
11 ranks-Enhanced Magical Healing –Whenever you use a healing spell or spell like ability out of combat you can multiply the casting time by ten and heal the maximum amount.
16 ranks-Bonus Healing-Whenever you use a healing spell or spell like ability you heal an additional amount of hit points equal to your total heal skill bonus
Intimidate
6 ranks- Demoralize as a move action
11 ranks-Frightful Presence 20ft DC equals Intimidate ranks +Cha
16 ranks-Frightful Presence extends to 40ft
Jump
6 ranks – No penalty without a running start for jumping
11 ranks – Vertical jump DC = Height x2 (not x4)
16 ranks – Vertical Jump DC = Height
Knowledge
6 ranks-???
11 ranks-???
16 ranks-???
Linguistics
This is again tied to my homebrew world which has the following languages
Common Languages
Common (pidgin trade language)
Imperial (human)
Khuzdul (dwegar)
Orcish (orcs)
Elven (elves)
Rare Languages
Languages of undiscovered cultures or rare outsiders from the stranger parts of the cosmos
6 ranks-Speak all non-rare languages (stop learning languages one per level as you have learned them all)
11 ranks-Speed Reading-Can read faster than a normal person, one page per round, can check for forgeries as a move action (2 pages per round)
16 ranks- Can learn any rare languages quickly
-half an hour with a good example of the language (A native speaker who also shares a language with you or a translation book)
-1d4 hours with a decent example of the language (a native speaker who is helping but does not share a language with you)
-3d4 hours (a native speaker who is not cooperating but not refusing to speak)
Perception
6 ranks-Enhanced Vision
Humans gain low light vision
Elves and orcs ignore up to -10 penalties for distance
Dwegar gain +30ft to their darkvision
11 ranks-Blind sense 20ft
16 ranks-Blind sight 10ft
Sense Motive
6 ranks-???
11 ranks-???
16 ranks-???
Sleight of Hand
6 ranks-Quick Draw Feat*
11 ranks-Improved Steal Feat*
16 ranks-Quick Steal Feat*
Spellcraft
Additional skill use: abnormal spell use requires a Spellcraft check depending upon how abnormal the spell modification is.
Examples
Reduce spell effect, have a fireball only explode with a 10ft radius DC 10+spell level
Avoid ally, give ally a +2 bonus against your area of effect spell DC 20+2*spell level
6 ranks- Improved Counterspell Feat*
11 ranks- Can counter spell using any spell at least two spell slots higher than the spell you are countering
16 ranks- Can counterspell using a spell of the same school and the same level or above, can counterspell using a spell of a different school which is one level above or more.
Stealth
6 ranks-your sniping penalty is reduced from -20 to -10
11 ranks-Can use stealth while observed at a -10 penalty
16 ranks- Move at full speed while sneaking with no penalty
Survival
6 ranks-???
11 ranks-???
16 ranks-???
Swim
6 ranks-Swim at half your base speed as a move action
11 ranks-Can hold your breath twice as long as normal
16 ranks-Gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed
*If a character gains a bonus feat from investing class in a class skill but she has already taken said feat she instead gets a bonus feat of the same category (general, combat, etc.)
I was thinking about implementing a house rule in my next game to buff class skills and was wondering if anyone had tried anything similar or might know where I could find info on something similar.
Something like:
You gain half your class level +3 as a bonus on all class skills.
Additionally with a high enough skill check a character could have effects similar (or identical) to spells. Essentially giving non-casters some of a casters out of combat utility. I'm considering things like the epic skill uses form the v3 Epic Level Handbook
e.g. spider-climb like effect with a high enough climb skill check, suggestion like effect with a high enough bluff or diplomacy, imparting the shaken, or even stunned condition with a high enough intimidate check. I might limit these additional uses of the skill to characters who have the skill as a class skill.
There are three goals for the house rule.
1. It makes classes more specialized. While a +3 bonus is huge at level one at high levels it becomes less significant and weather a skill is a class skill or not becomes less significant.
2. By boosting the power of skills in general but limiting it to class skills this *might* help non-casters compete with casters out of combat.
Has anyone done anything like this or have any suggestions for what effects high level skills could produce?
I am planning on running a low magic items campaign where every magic item is something special and not something that the players will pawn off once they get a better version. Thus I am eliminating enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor, all stat boosting and resistance boosting items, and basically anything which has +X bonus which would get upgraded every few levels. In addition I am trying to give a boost to martial characters.
This is a work in progress and I am posting because I would like feedback if anyone has any thoughts on this. Specifically assuming little to no magical gear what is the comparative power levels of characters using this variant to standard rules characters. Im okay with characters using this variant being equivalent to a high wealth normal character but not an obscene wealth normal character. These rules are incomplete and have not been playtested.
Hero Bonuses:
This mechanic compensates for the lack of stat and resistance boosting items as well as compensating for natural armor and deflection based AC bonuses
In addition to a feat every other level and a +1 to any one ability score every four levels that all hero's get regardless of class in the standard rules characters will additionally get
+Lv./2 Hero bonus to AC (applies at all times and stacks with everything)
+Lv./4 Hero bonus to all saves
+1 to all ability scores at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level
+1 to either all physical or mental ability scores at 9th and 18th level.
Overall this adds up to
+10 AC (equivalent to +5 amulet of NA, +5 ring of deflection)
+5 to all saves (+5 cloak of resistance)
+6 to primary stats (phys or mental) (+6 perfection item)
+4 to non primary stats (+4 perfection item)
This is equivalent to a high wealth characters gear at 20th level (kind of) and the bonuses are distributed linearly throughout the level progression.This makes lower level characters more powerful and is an overall power boost because spells such a s bull's strength would still be useful even at high levels.
Advanced Combat Bonus:
This is supposed to be a simple way to replace magic weapon and armor as well as provide a boost to the overall power level of martial characters
Advanced Combat Bonus (ACB) represents an advanced level of skill in combat
ACB = BAB/4 (+1 at BAB 4, +2 at BAB 8 etc.)
ACB is added to attack and damage rolls with weapons which the character is proficient with and as a dodge bonus to AC.
Feats that would interact with ACB
Prerequisites BAB +1
Weapon Focus: add +1 to attack with one weapon or if BAB>3 double ACB bonuses (that's to attack and damage)
Power Attack (unchanged but reworded): can choose to take -(1+ACB) to attack, +2*(1+ACB) to damage with one handed weapon, +3*(1+ACB) to damage with two handed weapon
Weapon Expertise: can choose to take -(1+ACB) to attack, add +2(1+ACB) as dodge bonus to AC vs enemies engaged in melee combat.
Armor Focus: Light armor add 0.5*ACB bonus to armor AC, minimum +1 (if ACB =0)
Medium Armor add ACB bonus to armor AC, minimum +1 (if ACB =0)
Heavy Armor add 1.5*ACB bonus to armor AC, minimum +1 (if ACB =0)
Shield Focus: Add ACB bonus to shield AC bonus, minimum +1 (if ACB =0)
Dodge: if wearing light or no armor double ACB dodge bonus to AC, minimum +1 (if ACB =0)
Due to Armor mastery a fighter can use dodge in medium armor at level 3 and heavy armor at level 7
Fighter Only
Weapon Specialization: Triple ACB bonuses with one weapon (Requires weapon focus)
Example:
Example of a character taking whole advantage of these rules, a Lv.15 Sword and Board Human Fighter
Start 20 point buy plus ability increases
Str 22
Dex 20
Con 20
Int 13
Wis 13
Cha 11
Saves
Fort +17 (+9 Base +3 Hero +5 Dex)
Ref +13 (+5 Base +3 Hero +5 Dex)
Will +9 (+5 Base +3 Hero +1 Wis)
AC 46 (10 +6 Hero, +6 dodge(ACB + dodge), +5 Dex, +6 Sheild(3 Base +3 Sheild Focus), 13 Armor(9 Base +4 Armor Focus))
Touch 33, Flat Footed 29
*I have shileds apply to touch but not flat footed
Power Attack: Longsword +29 (+15 BAB, +9(3 ACB*3 Weapon Specialization), +3 Weapon Training, +6 Str, -4 Power Attack)
1d8 +23 (+9(Weapon Specialization) +6 Str, +8 Power Attack)
As far as magic items a level 15 character would have three or four such as: dragonhide armor that gives fire resistance, a shocking sword that gives +1d6 lighting, a ring of water breathing, and boots of speed (+10ft), note no bonuses to attack, saves, AC, or damage (except the shocking of course)
I think wizards should have staves or at least the option of having magic staves earlier than vanilla makes feasible. Unfortunately the arcane bond has that big ol penalty for losing the bonded object and I think that any player who chooses the bonded item over the familiar would most likely choose an amulet or ring. That said I have not yet had a player who decided to go for the object over the familiar after reading the rules.
So what about this: a wizard gets a staff that gives some static bonus to his favored school spells, I was thinking +1 CL.
Arcane bond:
A wizard who chooses to bond with an item choose a staff rod or wand and begins play with such an arcane object. The wizard can use the hand wielding the object for somatic components for spells. When wielding the bonded item the wizard casts spells from her favored school at +1 CL. If lost or destroyed the wizard must personally craft a new item a process which takes a week of 8 hour work days and 100 gp.
A wizard who can craft rods, wands, or staves can decided when crafting such an item that this one will be her bonded item as well.
It's definitely more powerful but is it too powerful? do you think +1 to DC's would work better or maybe a floating +1 bonus to DC, Spell penetration, or duration?
I like shields. This probably comes from my limited experience in boffing where a good shield is just super duper great. So I have made a few changes to shields in my games
Buckler +1 AC
small shield +2 AC
large shield +3 AC
Tower +4 AC
Additionally I make shield bonuses apply to touch AC but not flat footed AC.
What I really want is to somehow make shields useful for blocking AoE spells and effects mainly so that paladins can valiantly block incoming breath attacks with their shields as they often do in fantasy art.
My first thought was to add shield bonus to reflex saving throws but that seems a little too powerful much, any thoughts?
So I was reading Lord of the Rings and Tolkien likes to bring up that elves are wise and dwarves are crafty. So how do people feel about switching the mental bonuses, giving +2 Int to dwarves and +2 wisdom to elves.
I see this encouraging dwarf wizards and magi, Wizard is a good crafting class so that fits.
It would encourage elven druids which seems to fit.
What do other people think about this? Are there other racial stat bonuses that could/should be moved around?
The last two campaigns I have run I have had some eastern flavor present and have had players want to be both a samurai and a monk. I found that for the samurai what the character actually wanted was more a badass killing machine than an honorable warrior so I had him play a fighter and call himself a ronin however for the monk I ran into the same problem as always monks just aren't as cool in play as they are on paper.
So here is what I propose for the next time someone want's to run a monk and I would very much like opinions.
Homebrew Monk by Bardarok
Armor: monks are proficient with light armor yet all but the lightest armors interfere with their abilities. However any light armor with an armor check penalty of zero (such as a ceremonial robe, masterwork studded leather, or mithril chain shirt) can be worn with no penalty E.G. flurry of blows, extra movement, wisdom to AC, etc all still work. Yes a fighter multiclass with armor training could wear all the way up to mithril breastplate (or more likely a Do-maru) as long as the total armor check penalty was zero, mithril full plate or kabuto armor would be medium armor so even if armor check penalty gets to zero it would not work. Shields still mess everything up so don't even think about it.
Flurry of Blows: This no longer functions as two weapon fighting, instead whenever the monk makes a full attack he may choose to take a -2 penalty to all attacks made and gain an extra attack at his highest base attack bonus (BAB), this attack must be made with a monk weapon or an unarmed strike (note the normal attacks can be made with any weapon). At 8th level he can make an additional unarmed attack at his full BAB -5, and at 15th yet another at his full BAB -10. If used with the two weapon fighting feat all the flurry bonus attacks must be unarmed attacks and the penalties stack. A monk still treats his monk BAB as equal to his monk level when flurrying.
Example a 20th level monk who we shall call Raphael has the normal, improved, and greater two weapon fighting feats. Wielding a sai in each hand he decides to flurry and use two weapon fighting. He gets –2 to all attacks for two weapon fighting and -2 to all attacks for flurrying taking only has BAB and those penalties into account he gets +16/+11/+6/+1 with his main hand sai, +16/+11/+6 with his off-hand sai, and +16/+11/+6 unarmed attacks. Yes that’s ten attacks but he is a level 20 so why the balls not. He is also a turtle.
