Variant on full attack


Homebrew and House Rules


Hello all,

I am playing around with replacing +X items in my game again. For replacing +X weapon items specifically I am considering boosting the ability of characters to attack by allowing them to make all attacks as a standard action with the normal -5 per extra attack penalty. Additionally characters would be able to make a full attack using their highest bonus for all attacks e.g.

BAB ----- Std Attack ----- Full Attack

+6 ----- +6/+1 ----- +6/+6

+11 ----- +11/+6/+1 ----- +11/+11/+11

+16 ----- +16/+11/+6/+1 ----- +16/+16/+16/+16

I know this has the potential to sow down play but I require (and provide) color coded dice for making multiple attacks so I don't think it will inconvenience us too much.

My question is how much more powerful do you think this is over core assuming that the characters have no access to +X enhanced weapons. They do have access to special materials for bypassing damage reduction, and at higher levels access to some weapons with special qualities.


Without magical enhancement to weapons, as well as +x items, you're players will probably die unless you re-balance the game.

Many players are dependent on +3 to overcome cold iron/silver or +4 to overcome adamantine or +5 to overcome alignment based resistance. Though alignment based is the only one I'd really be worried about since the others can be bought, though this encourages the golfbag approach to weapons which Pathfinder worked to get rid of.

It also means that by removing stat bonus of +x to con, strength, dex will hurt all the martial characters.

It will also hurt spell casters because their mental bonuses will be gone, but the can choose spells and classes that focus on casting spells that don't have saves (summon spells especially) so it hurts them less.


Claxon wrote:

Without magical enhancement to weapons, as well as +x items, you're players will probably die unless you re-balance the game.

Many players are dependent on +3 to overcome cold iron/silver or +4 to overcome adamantine or +5 to overcome alignment based resistance. Though alignment based is the only one I'd really be worried about since the others can be bought, though this encourages the golfbag approach to weapons which Pathfinder worked to get rid of.

It also means that by removing stat bonus of +x to con, strength, dex will hurt all the martial characters.

It will also hurt spell casters because their mental bonuses will be gone, but the can choose spells and classes that focus on casting spells that don't have saves (summon spells especially) so it hurts them less.

Yes. Addressing that issue as it applies specifically to enhanced weapons is the point of everything I wrote previously past the first sentence.

EDIT: If you are curious as to what I am considering for the other problems I was going to increase the save bonuses of all class (good saves to a max of 15 bad to a max of 10), provide more native ability score increases to replace magical belts/bands, and for defenses I was going to go max HP per hit die and maybe a base defense bonus though I have not decided what that should be. I just wanted to start with one part that I was least sure about to get a second opinion instead of throwing it all out there as a wall of text that no one would read.


Having fooled with this quite a bit over the years, I can tell you that you have only two real choices:

1. Implement something that mimics the current system, like the automatic bonus progression in unchained - I use something similar that is home brewed. No big 6 items, but the PCs get the bonuses from somewhere else.

2. Rebalance everything, which means writing your own game (and every monster) from scratch. I don't recommend this.

Anything else will result in an unbalanced game that will eventually fall apart. The problem is that the power curve is rather steep and being a few +1's behind means rarely scoring a hit. The farther behind a PC falls, the worse it gets.

If your changes give the PCs the bonuses they need, you are all set. Otherwise, not so much...


Mike J wrote:

Having fooled with this quite a bit over the years, I can tell you that you have only two real choices:

1. Implement something that mimics the current system, like the automatic bonus progression in unchained - I use something similar that is home brewed. No big 6 items, but the PCs get the bonuses from somewhere else.

2. Rebalance everything, which means writing your own game (and every monster) from scratch. I don't recommend this.

Anything else will result in an unbalanced game that will eventually fall apart. The problem is that the power curve is rather steep and being a few +1's behind means rarely scoring a hit. The farther behind a PC falls, the worse it gets.

If your changes give the PCs the bonuses they need, you are all set. Otherwise, not so much...

So you think I should just incorporate the bonuses in such that for example a barbarian BAB would max out at 25, (still limiting to 4 attack though at lv. 6, 11, 16). Do you think I would need to add a damage bonus as well? The characters will find magic items with special qualities that deal increased damage.


Bardarok wrote:
Mike J wrote:

Having fooled with this quite a bit over the years, I can tell you that you have only two real choices:

1. Implement something that mimics the current system, like the automatic bonus progression in unchained - I use something similar that is home brewed. No big 6 items, but the PCs get the bonuses from somewhere else.

2. Rebalance everything, which means writing your own game (and every monster) from scratch. I don't recommend this.

Anything else will result in an unbalanced game that will eventually fall apart. The problem is that the power curve is rather steep and being a few +1's behind means rarely scoring a hit. The farther behind a PC falls, the worse it gets.

If your changes give the PCs the bonuses they need, you are all set. Otherwise, not so much...

So you think I should just incorporate the bonuses in such that for example a barbarian BAB would max out at 25, (still limiting to 4 attack though at lv. 6, 11, 16). Do you think I would need to add a damage bonus as well? The characters will find magic items with special qualities that deal increased damage.

It is basically what I did. I not only replaced + bonuses to weapons/armours (also natural armour)/Resistance with an integrated system, but I also replaced ability-boost items with more regular ability boosts. Same with Boots of Speed, which everyone begged for, now they can just 'haste' a number of rounds per day based on their level (we just call it Adrenaline Boost).

Those are the things every single player seems to want...

+Weapon
+Armour
+Cloak
+Amulet of Natural Armour
+Belt/Headband
Boots of Haste

So, nobody gets them in my game, and they get cool/unique magic items in lieu. Admittedly, to fix the values, we had to greatly reduce the amount of gear-value per level by a lot, and stretch the other stuff out widely, but all in all it turned out best. Just removing them (my first choice) was horrific at upper levels (though great if you do E6)

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