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I was talking with ClanPsi on a different site and reached the conclusion that I think the different styles should add alternate key ability options just like the rogue rwckets. Braggart and Fencer would add a Cha option, gymnast would add Str as an option.
Additionally I think there really needs to be a style/option where you can get pinache from disarming. I mean it's the ability on the iconic swashbuckling weapon the rapier.
I wouldn’t include disarm as an option, because crit-only makes it more of an emergency option. It doesn’t make for a fun focus.
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Something to allow Swashbucklers to disarm better seems like a definite thing that should exist. I dunno about as a primary fighting style, but its should definitely be a thing.
Maybe a Class Feat with stringent requirements (like, requiring Panache and counting as a finisher, plus being a two or even three action activity) that actually allows a disarm on a success.
That seems like it could be balanced if designed appropriately. The Panache economy and counting as a finisher potentially let you make Swashbuckler Feats with really good effects.
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Something to allow Swashbucklers to disarm better seems like a definite thing that should exist. I dunno about as a primary fighting style, but its should definitely be a thing.
Maybe a Class Feat with stringent requirements (like, requiring Panache and counting as a finisher, plus being a two or even three action activity) that actually allows a disarm on a success.
That seems like it could be balanced if designed appropriately. The Panache economy and counting as a finisher potentially let you make Swashbuckler Feats with really good effects.
That as a finisher would be awesome.
I really like swashbucklers limit break system. I idly wondered if it could work this way, but it looks better than I’d thought.
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Opportune Riposte allows you to disarm instead of attack, so I think building on that to make a "disarm with a high chance of success" would be a good idea.
The problem with disarm is that it has the potential to end fights, so it can't be a reliable first order option. But if you make it (critically) succeed a lot in cases where 1) you have or have just used panache, 2) as a reaction, and 3) after someone crit failed on an attempt to hit you that seems reasonable.
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Something to allow Swashbucklers to disarm better seems like a definite thing that should exist. I dunno about as a primary fighting style, but its should definitely be a thing.
Maybe a Class Feat with stringent requirements (like, requiring Panache and counting as a finisher, plus being a two or even three action activity) that actually allows a disarm on a success.
That seems like it could be balanced if designed appropriately. The Panache economy and counting as a finisher potentially let you make Swashbuckler Feats with really good effects.
I could see a two action finisher that lets you roll twice on the disarm attempt, or a three action finisher that gives you one degree of success higher.
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I could see a two action finisher that lets you roll twice on the disarm attempt, or a three action finisher that gives you one degree of success higher.Yeah, I think the three action one is a better design of those two, but the three action version seems pretty reasonable and interesting.
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I am thoroughly interested in the final version of this post ;-)
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I am thoroughly interested in the final version of this post ;-)
What do you mean? Just a final version of the Feat in question? It'd really be pretty straightforward (3 action activity, Swashbuckler and Finisher Traits, 'Make a Disarm attempt, any success on this attack counts as a critical success'). Then pick a level for it...I want to say around 6 or 8 sounds right, but I think it could be argued up or down.
Maybe throw something on to make it better for Fencers (something like allowing you to use Dex instead of Str on the Athletics check to Disarm, maybe), since that's on-theme for them.
That'd make it slightly better for everyone, of course, but it's a three action finisher, it probably should have decent odds of success.
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I am thoroughly interested in the final version of this post ;-)
What do you mean? Just a final version of the Feat in question? It'd really be pretty straightforward (3 action activity, Swashbuckler and Finisher Traits, 'Make a Disarm attempt, any success on this attack counts as a critical success'). Then pick a level for it...I want to say around 6 or 8 sounds right, but I think it could be argued up or down.
Maybe throw something on to make it better for Fencers (something like allowing you to use Dex instead of Str on the Athletics check to Disarm, maybe), since that's on-theme for them.
That'd make it slightly better for everyone, of course, but it's a three action finisher, it probably should have decent odds of success.
Your original comment talked about the 3 action version twice when it seemed like it meant to be half about the 2 and half about the three
That might be what the above commenter was getting at ...
I would like the finisher was type of incapacitate action at start.
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I am thoroughly interested in the final version of this post ;-)
What do you mean? Just a final version of the Feat in question? It'd really be pretty straightforward (3 action activity, Swashbuckler and Finisher Traits, 'Make a Disarm attempt, any success on this attack counts as a critical success'). Then pick a level for it...I want to say around 6 or 8 sounds right, but I think it could be argued up or down.
Maybe throw something on to make it better for Fencers (something like allowing you to use Dex instead of Str on the Athletics check to Disarm, maybe), since that's on-theme for them.
That'd make it slightly better for everyone, of course, but it's a three action finisher, it probably should have decent odds of success.
You already can use Dex instead of strength with a disarm weapon. At least that was Stephen's intent during the playtest.
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You already can use Dex instead of strength with a disarm weapon. At least that was Stephen's intent during the playtest.
Sure, but the intersection of 'Disarm' and Swashbuckler weapons is specific and kind of weird (the only one actually appropriate for most Swashbucklers thematically is the main-gauche). Allowing it with most weapons has theme advantages.
It's admittedly a fairly minor bonus, though.
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Maybe disarm panache could be a universal thing like Tumble Through is. Would likely want more stuff making disarm better for them though (feat/class ability to extend disarm penalty on success to be start of your next turn instead of theirs?) I'd be happy with swashbuckler as king of disarm, suits the theming.
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Of all classes, I would hope that Swashbuckler would be the one that can disarm a weapon, catch it out of the air with his off hand, and hold both swords crossed at his opponent's throat as a single action. If you must break it up into three actions, I would say "Disarm. Catch. Finisher." Maybe she would have an ability that gives her a critical success when she gets a success on a disarm check?
Overall Disarm was pretty underpowered in 2e, which I kind of liked. It fits with the action system. It is something that everyone can do if they are trained in the skill, but no one does it so well that they completely cripple a melee fighter in one action. These techniques could easily fit in the Fencer's style. It doesn't need its own option.
Of all classes, I would hope that Swashbuckler would be the one that can disarm a weapon, catch it out of the air with his off hand, and hold both swords crossed at his opponent's throat as a single action. If you must break it up into three actions, I would say "Disarm. Catch. Finisher." Maybe she would have an ability that gives her a critical success when she gets a success on a disarm check?
Overall Disarm was pretty underpowered in 2e, which I kind of liked. It fits with the action system. It is something that everyone can do if they are trained in the skill, but no one does it so well that they completely cripple a melee fighter in one action. These techniques could easily fit in the Fencer's style. It doesn't need its own option.
Maybe a fortune effect finisher that lets you roll twice on your disarm and take the better result (a no damage, panache using finisher)? This wouldn't be as powerful as turning successes into crit successes, but would still greatly increase the chances of critting with it.