Legion Archon

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Any indication on when it will be released? For some reason I was under the impression it should already have probably me misremembering. I am not asking for a specific date just something more informative that early this year


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The topic of roleplayers vs rollplayers has been discussed to no end. personaly I feel like the ones that start the nagging (either one of them) is in the wrong.

I have personally experienced more drama and campaign ending from "roleplayers" saying that's how my character would act (then doing x thing that destroys fun for z amount of players) than optimizers.

Regardless this is a "math" thread, those that feel the need to promote their superiority as "true" roleplayers and lay bare the error of our way of thinking need not apply.

Back to the main thread, I think it would be more useful to have the highest dps class as ceiling of shorts for this analysis, but in general compare apples to apples.

what I mean is there are very few classes that can benefit from animal companion so it would be best to have a companionless ranger vs a ranger with an animal companion etc. and have their total damage as 1 unit compared to the highest dps class.

PS: From the analysis between the bear and the wolf, I would almost always choose the wolf due to the AC despite being less damaging and not being able to carry (as a mount) a medium creature. Things I am still considering, A champion with a reaction can grant DR to the bear so maybe that can help the lack of good AC. The support action of the bear and the extra attack might make a significant difference in damage to make the bear more desirable.


@ shroudb I was referring to:

Riding Animal Companions
Source Core Rulebook pg. 214

You or an ally can ride your animal companion as long as it is at least one size larger than the rider. If it is carrying a rider, the animal companion can use only its land Speed, and it can’t move and Support you on the same turn. However, if your companion has the mount special ability, it’s especially suited for riding and ignores both of these restrictions.

The wolf trick is nice if you don't want to be a goblin.... not that being raised by one is much better :P although it will make a fun backstory


@ Iron_Matt17 If damage wise they are equal and/or depends, then Animal Companion has an edge as it is another body on the grid despite needing more class feats and requiring healing maintenance I think.

@ rayous brightblade In this edition I don't think mounted combat gives that much of an advantage (even in pf1 it was a very specialized build not worth it most of the time due to constraints but otherwise good) to be a viable option especially if we are discussing bears and wolves (I have found no way to give them the mount ability that Horses have). Regardless the rule needs to be mentioned as I had missed that.


Hm As a champion would an animal ally be better for damage than a sword ally (assuming you can get a bear or a wolf)?

Another thing to consider is the opportunity cost, an animal companion needs lots of class feats to be relevant at all levels so it might be worth it for a champion but not a Druid etc.. the better the class feats are the less likely you are to invest in an animal companion.

Still I would say that having another source to absorb damage, take place in the grid to control available enemy space and to exchange your 3rd attack (when you would have chosen to make one) for more reliable damage sounds really good.

Edit: had typed fighter instead of druid for some wierd reason


Can you awesome fellas tell us how the titan instinct looks like in the final version? is it worthwhile ?


The secret roll was to keep the element of uncertainty for the player, that the current system has by making checks every round and not knowing when you will fail (more or less).

I do agree that it can be a hustle for the DM as he has to be responsible for a lot of things and having one more is annoying although unless your party has more than one barbarian I don't think its a deal breaker.

The barbarian could roll the dice instead but then he would know exactly when he would drop out of rage and he could use that knowledge to strategise accordingly. Not necessary a bad thing just not what the new rage mechanics allow for.

EDIT: I have seen DMs that keep everything in check and note down how many spells you have casted as well as what spells you have prepared for the day and I have seen some that don't and are like " I trust you man, go do your thing while I figure out what the enemies do". As a player I never cheat as I find it boring (the chance of failure, or not having the right spell makes the wins matter more) but I cant say that all player are like that. So if you are a DM that checks everything having one more thing to keep track of cant be harder than keeping up with the caster now (and with how many Hp everyone has, how many potions etc).


If you want random chance and easy math i would go on the lines of:

At the start of your rage the DM secretly rolls 1d4+1 to see how many rounds you rage.

since you dont control the rage and you dont know when its gonna end to not penalize the players further I would remove the minus to AC you get from raging.

((For a more curve bell chance it could be roll 3d4 and choose the mid result but then it gets complicated again))


So I wanted to play a mounted combat character for a long time and I was recently given the chance and went with the Paladin (shining knight) as my main class. I also fell in love with a subpar (as judged by the community feat) namely monstrous mount to get a Griffon.

The first problem I come across was the lack of feats… I wanted:

Fey foundling
Power Attack
Monstrous mount
Monstrous mount mastery

That’s 4 feats even before I went to the mounted combat line (mounted combat, ride by attack, and spirited charge as the baseline and then Trick Riding & Mounted Skirmisher)

Ok human then for the extra feat is must but still…

I realized that I would need to do something to get all those feats before the end of the campaign… and so decided to go another route.

Grab Fey foundling, Power Attack, Monstrous mount & Monstrous mount mastery (now I can selfheal better do respectable damage and have a pounce ( with sohei dip) and fly mode)

Ignore mounted combat, ride by attack, and spirited charge, use a lance till level 7 and then a Greatsword or Nodatchi

Sohei monk dip at 7 to get Mounted Skirmisher (now I can full attack )

First Mother's Fang Cavalier at some point (level 6 or 8) to get Combat Expertise & Pack Flanking and buy a Sky Marines Elite Saddle

Outflank should be the next feat.

So build should be something like this:

Human | Power Attack
Paladin 1 | Fey foundling
Paladin 2 |
Paladin 3 | free
Paladin 4 |
Paladin 5 | Monstrous mount
Paladin 6 |
Sohei monk 7 | Mounted Skirmisher & free
FMF Cavalier 8 | Combat Expertise & Pack Flanking and buy a Sky Marines Elite Saddle
Paladin 9 | Outflank

So first of all this is not for PFS game, but did I mesh up anywhere? Is the build solid? Can it be improved? For the 2 free feats do you have any suggestions?

Possible 2 feat choice for the free spots
1) Greater Mercy & Extra lay on hands
2) Evolved Companion (skill fly) & Boon Companion

Limitations: Leadership is not allowed
Divine bond mount are the ones stated so no DM judgement

To Consider: can a human become FMF Cavalier?
The mount from the cavalier and the divine bond normally should not stack as the one is a constrictor snake and the other is a horse but with Monstrous Mount feat they should right?

Thank you for your time


I believe this one to be one of the most well written guide out there for pathfinder in general, and for that I say hats off to you sir!

I suggest A mention to VMC and normal multiclassing Dips

Good VMC that might be worth 5 feats are:
-Barbarian, cause if you focus on str it gives you +2 to hit and damage (or even +3 to damage) uncanny dodge that could prove useful a rage power (reckless abandon for more accuracy perhaps or any of the good ones) and allowing you to take extra rage power. DR 3/— isn't bad and greater rage is good but late. Overall if your build doesn't require many feats it can be beneficial especially as monk lacks ways to improve his attack bonus. Scaled fist with dragon style comes in mind

-Wizard, void elemental school seems pretty good as it boosts saves and to hit at level 19, Air elemental school allows for flight, Divination boost initiative, teleportation if you want early small movement help. It even has some schools that offer enchantment bonus as you lvl (not for your main stats but monks are MAD so you can always find a stat to aply it)

-Magus, You gain an arcane pool that can help you enchant your attacks a magus arcana (I like Ki Arcana but there are many good) and only spellstrike is wasted

Dips that might be worth 1 or 2 lvls

-Cleric (crusader) 1 lvl dip, it opens up some feat option like crusader's flurry or domain strike and gives you weapon focus. Domain strike repose is brutal (if taken as a VMC fist or wood domain are good as well). Another feat to consider is guided hand although sadly it doesn't do a lot for damage it does help with being wisdom focused and having higher wisdom stunning DC's

-Urban barbarian 1 or 2 lvl dip or Bloodrager 1 for rage and goodies

I am sure there are more and some what i suggested might not be worth it but I still thing there should be a section for those. I am sure its more of a case "I will get around to that at a later time" than anything else


Well the main problem is that if I ever reach HP 0 with most undead its game over (at least at low lvls right?). Undead that have ways to avoid destruction have other problems making them unobtainable for a lvl 3 char (like needing 5 HD, or turning int to - ,or having to sink 3 feats etc).

@Tyrant Lizard King Yea Ghast would be even better (as the stats would be +6str, +8dex, +8wis, +8cha crazy right!) and even with 1 lvl that would make for a strong antagonist especially if he survived till lvl 2. Unfortunetly the stench ability would require another feat to hide (civilized ghoul I think) so i would have to wait till lvl 7 before taking power attack or any other feat realy. Playing undead is hard :P

edit: Forgot to answer your question. The stats on all monsters are calculated using the common array (10,10,10,11,11,11) so to calculate the stats bonuses you subtract 10 from the monsters stats and if its an odd number subtract 1 again. Its in the monsters with class lvls I think.

@Nathan Monson Juju is nice and all but it doesn't cover the destroyed at 0 HP part


@Maw Tyrant he does not allow for 3.5 or 3rd party materials sadly but that's ok.
@Entryhazard Yea Ghoul is looking better and better even if I have to sink 3 feats its CR 1 so it is only 1 lvl behind (one that will eventually not matter any more) and it gives good stats bonuses +2 str, +4 dex, +2 int, +4 wis, +4 cha.


@Pizza Lord well yea there is always that way.

So Monsters as PC Ghoul is the safest bet right now with 3 feats locked to get old as dirt


Yea Vampires would make for a strong Antipaladin. will have to Talk with the Gm for what I can expect to encounter to see if the concept is viable

Graveknight is awesome but it needs 5hd first so no dice there

@Bearserk wow never would have thought of that will look more into it!

@Pizza Lord damn... that makes adding bloody impossible I don't think the DM would roll with that

@Entryhazard well bloody looks harder and harder to use :P

To sum Up at lvl 3 my best bet is Vampire or Ghoul. Graveknight is awesome but needs lvl 7 (any lops around that?).

EDIT: Sadly vampire template needs 5HD as well so that's out


Scavenger1977 wrote:
Vampire? (high Charisma) ; perfect choice for anti-paladin?

Vampire has a lot of Weaknesses I have to work around. This character must be playable as we will have to go on adventures to mess the plans of the good guys. But nevertheless you have given me some food for thought I will try and see if I can work around those weaknesses.

Also Graveknight seems to be perfect for what I have in mind... any reason not to make one? Graveknight antipaladin 1 seems to be perfect (perhaps bonded on Armageddon plate)


Greetings fellow gamers

I have been invited on a campaign to play the role of the villain. Basically I will be part of a group (3 people total) that will be the antagonist of the main party (other people that we will have little to no interaction with (perhaps only at the end of the campaign)).

Character starting lvl is 3

So my first thought was to build an Antipaladin and to create better synergy I want the race to be undead. But here come the first difficulty.

Undeads (and templates that make one undead) aren't really catered towards players and that they are destroyed once the hit 0 hp.

After some research I decided that a bloody skeleton is the best template for a PC but a) i have trouble making it intelligent and b) Am I reading right that it sets Cha to 14? If my Cha is 20 will it revert to 14?

Anyways Can you think of a better race/template(remember it has to be undead and obtainable at lvl 3)

So far I have thought of Aasimar (+2 str & +2 cha Variant) as a base then Skeletal Champion template followed by bloody skeleton (for a CR +2). This nets me the deathless ability and intelligence.

Alternatively if the above is illegal normal skeleton template with the magus and bloody skeleton template on top(for a CR +2)

What are your thoughts?

Bonus Question: Is there a way to hide the fact that the char is undead? To protect against turn/control undead?


I am currently playing in a campaign (lvl 7) and I have two characters (since we are lacking members at the moment) only 1 session so far. One is a paladin the other is a sylvan sorcerer. For the most part Automatic Bonus Progression hasn't hurt my paladin and in one occasion helped me. We were ready to fight some demons and we had some preparation time so I bought a cold Iron version of my weapon and attuned it (so I at least had a +1 weapon). On the other hand I couldn't pool my money on a big item like a +3 weapon which well would help me overcome the damage reduction and net me +2 to hit and damage. All in all I feel that i traded flexibility (and the ability to optimize) but gained slightly higher wealth by level, the freedom of not caring about loot so much (or optimization).

For the sorcerer I was more disappointed as the +1 to weapon was wasted resources and I felt i was running short on money for wondrous items. The need to equip my animal companion as well was a tad too harsh with the lack of flexibility on my budget. Still it was not that bad. I just thing that the Automatic Bonus Progression is more geared towards martials that spellcasters.

The DM really liked it as it was a lot less job to equip costume made NPCs
and he was not afraid we would leave the wealth by lvl curve by defeating appropriate level NPCs.

All in all I would say that it works. It lowers the ceiling and raises the Floor as far as equipment optimization is concerned but i am sure that at higher levels when half your wealth by lvl is considerably large optimization will still sneak in.


Hello there, might I bring up the Orc bloodline (via eldritch heritage feat line) again? As you have already said it is a very feat demanding chain (4+1 feats and it even needs a trait really) to make it work and I might add it only works on levels +10 and above. However castigator paladin really only needs 1 feat to faction (power attack) leaving us plenty to play around so let’s see if we get value for money.

Skill focus survival is a feat tax no matter how you see it (even if human or half-elf can help soften the blow) and ideally should be taken before lvl 10, so out of our 5 feats till level 10 one is given to power attack and one to skill focus leaving us 3 feats to play with… enough for a castigator to branch out.

Now the first eldritch heritage feat grants us Touch of Rage (Sp). On its own its sounds really cool but then you notice the 1 round duration and the standard action cost to activate and people go meh… Also it is a moral bonus that at small levels scales slowly ( at level 4 its +1 while at 13th when you get access to 4th lvl spells its +5 equal to what you get for the spell Bloodsworn Retribution). The thing is that the ability gets better as you level up reaching a +10 moral bonus at lvl 20. The duration can be improved with either of 2 traits (optimistic gambler a campaign depended trait & community minded a regional trait (although some rp limitation might apply). This alleviates one problem. The second issue can be alleviated by another feat Quicken spell like ability available at lvl 11. So now for 2 feats and a trait you get a +5 to +10 moral bonus to attack damage and will saves ( or +0 to +5 over spell Bloodsworn Retribution). I think it is a worthwhile investment at higher levels if you aim to increase damage. Are there any better combinations of feats at level 11+ to increase damage output?

The second eldritch heritage feat gives us Strength of the Beast (Ex) gives us up to +6 inherent str increase. This is 1 above what we could normally get if you have started game with an even number is str and used your ability score increase from leveling up to charisma this nets you +1 to hit and +1,5 to damage and saves you 25.000,00 gp x4. If not it just saves you 25.000,00 gp x5 and nets you the same results as if you had used wish 5 times. The way wealth by levels work the bonuses you get might come online earlier as well. Not too bad for a feat (better than weapon focus). I addition with the money saved you could perhaps add the property that increases your effective bloodline level by 4 from the robe (don’t remember the name of the item) to whatever you are currently wearing.

The third eldritch heritage feat I believe most people find worthwhile right? It improves the requirements its gives you large size on demand (that works regardless of creature type) and is overall vastly superior to enlarge person and better than righteous might.

The cost are high but so are the returns. This does not take into consideration the courageous enchantment as it would work with the spell Bloodsworn Retribution the same and it’s going to be errated soon anyway but there is that as well to push the numbers higher. A castigator has feats to spend and at higher levels the above combination shines. Now I wouldn’t say they are Blue as feats but with the exception of skill focus survival (red) and the third eldritch heritage feat (blue) the rest are green to yellow and thus should have a place in your guide.

Anyway that’s my thoughts I really wish to hear yours (especially on the better alternatives and why at higher levels) as I plan to build a paladin for a costume campaign that will go all the way up to 20.


Hi there! Whats your opinion on Skinwalkers as a race for brawlers? sure you don't get anything from natural attacks but 2 versions seems to be really good.

The unmodified Skinwalker gets a +2 wis -2 int with a flouting +2 to a physical stat and (most likely) a +1 nat armor.

The witchwolf Skinwalker gets a +2 con -2 int with a +2 wis and (most likely) a +2 racial to saves.

Both address somewhat the shortcomings of the brawler class (ac and will save) have a penalty in a stat brawlers dont care to much about and get a spell like ability (magic fang for the witchwolf) so they can grab arcane strike for what that matters.

PS: The skill bonus ain't have bad either for the witchwolf
PS2: unfortunately they don't get much support from other supplements.
PS3: for a naval campaign Seascarred could also work +2 Wis, –2 Int (+2 Con while shapechanged)


Yea I figured as much but had to ask to be sure. Thanks anyway its a pity paladins cant have Nethys as a god since he is 2 steps away from LG.


@ Sir Thugsalot you have convinced me about perception and I won’t be taking it. I Had forgotten that in PF int gives you skills in retro verse. So that’s 14 dex Unsanctioned knowledge i will leave for latter to decide if i should take it or not.
@master_marshmallow those are some good spells but with 12 int I don’t qualify for the feat unless i put some resource into intelligence

Thank you both!


Hello everyone my question to you all is this: Underlying Principals (principles?) can you keep it after changing gods? In Religion Traits there is a rule that says that "Unlike the other categories of traits, religion traits can go away if you abandon your religion, as detailed below under Restrictions." Emphasis on can... suggesting that some don't right? If we read the text in restriction "Remember also that traits are intended to model events that were formative in your character’s development, either events from before he became an adventurer, or (in the case of additional traits gained via the Additional Traits feat) ones that happened while adventuring. Even if your character becomes a hermit and abandons society, he’ll still retain his legacy of growing up an aristocrat if he took the relevant social trait. The one exception to this is religion traits—since these traits require continued faith in a specific deity, your character can indeed lose the benefits of these traits if he switches religions. In this case, consult your GM for your options. She may simply rule that your character loses that trait, or she might allow him to pick a new religion trait tied to his new deity. Another option is that if your character abandons a religion, he loses the associated religion trait until he gains an experience level, at which point he may replace a lost religion trait with a basic faith trait." As i understand it that means that its is up to the DM to figure which trait requires continual faith in order to work.

The fluff of Underlying Principals read as following: "You’ve spent a large amount of time around magical items, and understand the similarities between many of them." As far as I can tell it doent have a direct connection to ones faith (apart from the opportunity it provides to spend that time among those objects) and once the knowledge is acquired I see no reason to lose it.

Is there an official ruling to this? I Know there is dangerously curious if i want use magic device but I want to know about the above PFS ruling. Many thanks in Advance!


Thanks for the heads up! Sorry i was late to respond but I had gone away for the weekend and there was no internet! The horror! Anyways….

@Sir Thugsalot & master_marshmallow: The problem with Magical knack is that i can choose that or dangerously curious but not both since both are magic traits. If I choose one I will have to skip the other. Taken this into account and the advice giver i believe use magic device is better.

@master_marshmallow: I can’t find "Seeker" trait can you tell me where it is from? I think Veteran Jungle Guide is a good alternative if i choose to go perception.
With UMD I can do a lot more than heal out of combat. For buffs i have Enlarge Person, Shield , Lead Blade, Expeditious Retreat, Touch of the Sea, Feather Step, Long strider and that’s from lvl 1 and i might have missed some that have longish durations. If I actually buy with gold some wants i get access to natural armor and deflection bonus and other goodies
Unsanctioned knowledge is tempting but as it has been pointed out i will have very few spell slots to work with and as a PFS character I don’t think I will reach ever 4th lvl spells.
Furious focus I don’t see me taking it although the intimidating feats were really nice.

@Sir Thugsalot a wisdom based class at level 12 will have 16+2 from race +2 from leveling up + 4 item = 24 wisdom give or take. Now that’s a plus 7 modifier and with the -2 i have that 45% better chance than me to succeed a perception check all other things equal. My question is are the DC at lvl 12 so hard that only a guy with a wisdom 24 could hope to succeed? Now oath of vengeance is cool at the smaller levels so you can mark more than once but I will think about it a little more.
Last thing getting a plus 1 on dex will give me 1 more AC 1 more on refl and 1 more Init. You seem to be focused on AC too much I think. At level 1 I have 19 AC that should be more than enough to help me survive. After that I will have lay on hands for HP and spells from Use Magic Device. Is it that more useful than 1 ac from 12 skill points over the long run?


That's ok I Don't like Abatar as a God (my paladin would emphasize more the aspect of lawful than good) so I am leaning on reactionary. Yea that trait is awesome for a tiefling


@XMorsX I was really tempted for that oracle dip and the scion of war combo but i think that would work better with a human to grab fey foundling as well the mechanical benefits are great but i will stick to full paladin thanks for the good advice though.

@Bigdaddyjug Ok use magic device trait it is! and I wont be taking unsanctioned knowledge as well so it even better now. Will see what I will do for the last trait... +3 on perception or +2 on initiative.

@nate lange yep I will pick dangerously curious. Will think about the focus as well

@Sir Thugsalot will think about the switch in stats between dex and int. Its realy sad that martial class get so few skill points. But between diplomacy, perception, use magic device sense motive and linguistics I find it hard to drop one. Perception I am going with a -2 and perhaps i should drop it and just come to terms with sucking at it but it is the most common skill rolled. Linguistics inst really that useful but I get 2 languages instead of one per point and some paladins spells are language depended plus its is fun knowing 24 languages! Now as far as quick draw is concerned I don't see me taking it. Ideally I would have the spell shield up by level 2 and my 2handed nodatchi at hand

You guys are awesome Thank you all for taking time to share your views and tricks with me


Thank you all for your advice!

Clectabled wrote:


If you are going Fey Foundling, (I did as well), I was going to select greater Mercy as my 3rd lvl feat as it adds a D6 of healing if you Lay on Hands and don't need the mercy. That not only adds the d6, but an additional 2 points for the fey foundling.

Greater Mercy - Benefit: When you use your lay on hands ability and the target of that ability does not have any conditions your mercies can remove, it instead heals an additional +1d6 points of damage.

I will take Power Attack at 5th however. The Ultimate Mercy looks like it’s a must have as well, be able to raise dead for free (if I take a neg lvl for 24 hours) Without a dedicated healer in the group I figured that would be a good use of my Lay on Hands as well

Greater mercy adds on average 5,5 healing which i guess is not bad for a feat and a better candidate than deadly aim. Wouldn't extra lay on hand add more virtual hitpoints though? Does delaying power attack till lvl 5 affect DPR much? Hm perhaps it is more useful at lvl 5 than at lvl 3.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I recommend against taking Deathless Spirit. Negative energy damage will be much less frequent than any of the others.

I thought that the racial would be substituted by the spell resist energy pretty quickly. Don’t forget that Deathless spirit gives a bonus to saves against death effects energy drain, negative energy, and spells or spell-like abilities of the necromancy school as well. Do you think Exalted Resistance is better?

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Your stats look fine, but you may want to consider getting your Cha up to a 16 and your Str to a 17 if you can, probably at the expense of Int. You'll never be a high skill class, but that decision is entirely up to you.

I like skill points to much I am afraid to lower my int. I am planning on having linguistics, perception, use magic device, diplomacy and sense motive as max skills ( perhaps lower linguistics a little to but on some knowledge for fluff reasons). Knowing a lot of languages helps with the litany line of spells and is a nice rp element.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Dangerously Curious is an awesome trait for a paladin, especially since Cha is a primary (or secondary, depending on how you look at it) ability for them. I took it on my PFS paladin and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Yea I can see the synergy. My only problem with wands is the standard action cost (meaning aside from one casting it has too much opportunity cost in battle) and the short duration most spells have. What do you think about the magical Knack? It’s the only way aside from some ion stone to raise caster level but is it useful to a paladin? Sadly I can’t take both (both are magic traits) or else I would have called it a day.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As for your feats, why are you taking Power Attack and Deadly Aim? You have a rather pathetic Dex, so ranged attacks aren't ever going to be a strong suit for you. Might I suggest Greater Mercy instead of Deadly Aim? Fey Foundling is an amazing trait for a paladin, and don't let anybody ever convince you not to take it. I've never looked into Unsanctioned knowledge, but I can't imagine it's that strong of a feat seeing as you don't get that many spells per day anyway. My paladin is level 5 with a 20 in Cha and only gets 3 per day. You could probably put that feat to better use as well with something like Cleave of Furious Focus.

I was suggested to take greater mercy again and I have to admit I only put deadly aim in there to have a range option as well but you are correct I would miss a lot. Having use magic device kinda makes Unsanctioned knowledge less attractive but I am still not convinced it’s a bad feat choice.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As far as your gear goes, I love the choice of a nodachi. My paladin uses a nodachi and carries a cold iron longsword for when she needs the extra AC from her shield or to dispatch demons. Might I suggest upgrading to a quickdraw shield when you have the gold for it so you can get your shield and weapon out in a single move action? I don't particularly see the need for a spiked gauntlet, since you have another one-handed weapon, unless it's a flavor purchase for you. After your first scenario, pick up a silversheen light mace, although I can honestly say I still don't have a bludgeoning weapon on my paladin and it hasn't affected me yet

Yea I think the choices I made on the items were the more reasonable ones thanks! The Spiked gauntlet is there just in case I get disarmed or have my weapon sundered or need a light weapon to use at grapples.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Also, you might want to consider going with an Oath of Vengeance paladin as the only thing you give up is the ability to channel, which is lackluster, and you gain possible extra uses of Smite Evil.

Yep I am going for that! If I understand it correctly I have to worship Iomedae or Torag right?. If so Iomedae it is.

Snowleopard wrote:
I'd take a 8 on the wisdom and the trait that turns perception into a class skill (eyes and ears of the city{Abadar}). That's pretty usefull for a frontline fighter.

Hm… going from 7 to 8 will only improve perception by 1 so I don’t think it is that necessary. I am already putting points on perception Abadar is not a bad at all to worship as deity but can I take oath of vengeance with him as a god? The trait is really nice thanks for the catch!

nate lange wrote:

i think it would probably work fine... although, i'm no expert on Society play- i think there's actually a separate sub-forum that's specifically for PFS questions, you might want to try asking this there?

as for the mechanics of what you have...
-race- i love it, aasimar make great paladins;
-stats- fine... personally, i wouldn't pay 2 points to go from 13 Int to 14; i also wouldn't drop my Wis all the way to 7; but those are personal preferences; i'd also be tempted to drop Con to 12 (since most of your effective hp come from your ability to heal yourself as a swift action)- though you might want to wait til you have to lock in your build at 2nd level to change that; any points you pick up from dropping any stat should go into Str or Cha.
-traits- armor expert is probably not a great choice... with only 12 dex you're probably not going to be taking any/many of the skills that the armor check penalty applies to; any of the other ones are fine choices though.
-feats- i wouldn't bother with deadly aim, with 12 dex you're not gonna be using a bow hardly at all, and when you do you won't want to take the penalty to hit; use that extra slot for one of the feats you mentioned, or greater mercy.
-items- looks like a pretty good, well-rounded list. you shouldn't need a silver item at 1st level, just watch for an opportunity to buy one in play.

With this deadly aim is out of the picture for good as well as armor expert. I have 16 str after racials and 17 cha I think the opportunity cost would be too high to get an 18 on str will fiddle with the thought some more.

XMorsX wrote:
Consider starting as an Oracle of Lore for 1lvl dip. With the Sidestep Secret revelation you can add CHA to AC and Reflex save, allowing you to dump Dex. Start with these stats (before racial modifiers) for Unsanctioned knowledge

Hm 1 level dip would cost me 1 bab and probably some spell slots and a caster level for my paladin spells. It is tempting though... very tempting at what level would I be better served to dip? Third?

Aaron Burr wrote:
I don't think Magical Knack is legal in Society, I could be wrong though.

It used to be non-legal but it changed recently… I am not sure how good it is. With it you are only lagging 1 caster lvl behind and with an ion stone you have caster level equal to your level. I guess it doesn’t matter seeing as use magic device is better

Once again thank you for your words of wisdom if you have any more you are welcome to share them with me


Hello everyone! I am planning on making a character (first one at that) for the pathfinder society and I need help with 2 things:

Firstly is the character legal?

Secondly do you think I could do better with some of the choices I made?

Ok moving to the character in question.
Race:

Spoiler:
Angel-blooded Aasimar ( Human would probably be better but I like the fluff of the race)
as alternative racial traits I chose Deathless spirit , Scion of Humanity and Truespeaker

Stats before racial mod (20 point buy):
Spoiler:
-str: 14
-dex: 12
-con: 14
-int: 14
-wis: 7
-cha: 15

Traits:
Spoiler:
Magical Knack or Dangerously Curious or Armor Expert or Reactionary or Birthmark. I am not sure at all about this one. How useful is magical Knack on a Paladin? Is having Dangerously Curious better? I looked at some good wands I could use but does a +4 on use magic device justifice not getting the +2 CL especially since I am considering getting unsanctioned knowledge as a feat? Birthmark will likely not be chosen as Paladins don’t need a divine focus so much and I can always have one tattooed on me. Initiative is always good but having a +1 on all dex and str check is enticing as well. All in all pretty indecisive on this one help would be much appreciated.

Feats:
Spoiler:
Fey foundling (lvl1)
Power attack (lvl3)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl5)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl7)
Angelic Blood (lvl9)
Angelic Wings (lvl11)
(Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge is up for debate. Not sure about either… I could as easily go extra mercy and/or ultimate mercy or just extra lay on hands)

Items:
Spoiler:
Four-mirror armor 45 gp
Nodachi 60 gp
Shield, light steel 9 gp
Gauntlet, spiked 5 gp
cold iron Morningstar 16 gp
Sling 0 —
Kit, paladin's 11 gp

If I could I would go for a silvered spiked gauntlet but that would push me outside of budget.

So what do you think? Is it solid? Weak? Have I neglected something terrible? Thanks in advance for your time and advice.