Advice on an Aasimar Paladin for pathfinder society play


Advice

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Hello everyone! I am planning on making a character (first one at that) for the pathfinder society and I need help with 2 things:

Firstly is the character legal?

Secondly do you think I could do better with some of the choices I made?

Ok moving to the character in question.
Race:

Spoiler:
Angel-blooded Aasimar ( Human would probably be better but I like the fluff of the race)
as alternative racial traits I chose Deathless spirit , Scion of Humanity and Truespeaker

Stats before racial mod (20 point buy):
Spoiler:
-str: 14
-dex: 12
-con: 14
-int: 14
-wis: 7
-cha: 15

Traits:
Spoiler:
Magical Knack or Dangerously Curious or Armor Expert or Reactionary or Birthmark. I am not sure at all about this one. How useful is magical Knack on a Paladin? Is having Dangerously Curious better? I looked at some good wands I could use but does a +4 on use magic device justifice not getting the +2 CL especially since I am considering getting unsanctioned knowledge as a feat? Birthmark will likely not be chosen as Paladins don’t need a divine focus so much and I can always have one tattooed on me. Initiative is always good but having a +1 on all dex and str check is enticing as well. All in all pretty indecisive on this one help would be much appreciated.

Feats:
Spoiler:
Fey foundling (lvl1)
Power attack (lvl3)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl5)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl7)
Angelic Blood (lvl9)
Angelic Wings (lvl11)
(Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge is up for debate. Not sure about either… I could as easily go extra mercy and/or ultimate mercy or just extra lay on hands)

Items:
Spoiler:
Four-mirror armor 45 gp
Nodachi 60 gp
Shield, light steel 9 gp
Gauntlet, spiked 5 gp
cold iron Morningstar 16 gp
Sling 0 —
Kit, paladin's 11 gp

If I could I would go for a silvered spiked gauntlet but that would push me outside of budget.

So what do you think? Is it solid? Weak? Have I neglected something terrible? Thanks in advance for your time and advice.


ArchangelAzrael wrote:
...

Building a Paladin my self, I went with a Rakshasa-Spawn Tiefling though to get the +1 hp when Lay on Hand to yourself.

If you are going Fey Foundling, (I did as well), I was going to select greater Mercy as my 3rd lvl feat as it adds a D6 of healing if you Lay on Hands and don't need the mercy. That not only adds the d6, but an additional 2 points for the fey foundling.

Greater Mercy - Benefit: When you use your lay on hands ability and the target of that ability does not have any conditions your mercies can remove, it instead heals an additional +1d6 points of damage.

I will take Power Attack at 5th however. The Ultimate Mercy looks like it 's a must have as well, be able to raise dead for free (if I take a neg lvl for 24 hours) Without a dedicated healer in the group I figured that would be a good use of my Lay on Hands as well.

Silver Crusade

I recommend against taking Deathless Spirit. Negative energy damage will be much less frequent than any of the others.

Your stats look fine, but you may want to consider getting your Cha up to a 16 and your Str to a 17 if you can, probably at the expense of Int. You'll never be a high skill class, but that decision is entirely up to you.

Dangerously Curious is an awesome trait for a paladin, especially since Cha is a primary (or secondary, depending on how you look at it) ability for them. I took it on my PFS paladin and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

As for your feats, why are you taking Power Attack and Deadly Aim? You have a rather pathetic Dex, so ranged attacks aren't ever going to be a strong suit for you. Might I suggest Greater Mercy instead of Deadly Aim? Fey Foundling is an amazing trait for a paladin, and don't let anybody ever convince you not to take it. I've never looked into Unsanctioned knowledge, but I can't imagine it's that strong of a feat seeing as you don't get that many spells per day anyway. My paladin is level 5 with a 20 in Cha and only gets 3 per day. You could probably put that feat to better use as well with something like Cleave of Furious Focus.

As far as your gear goes, I love the choice of a nodachi. My paladin uses a nodachi and carries a cold iron longsword for when she needs the extra AC from her shield or to dispatch demons. Might I suggest upgrading to a quickdraw shield when you have the gold for it so you can get your shield and weapon out in a single move action? I don't particularly see the need for a spiked gauntlet, since you have another one-handed weapon, unless it's a flavor purchase for you. After your first scenario, pick up a silversheen light mace, although I can honestly say I still don't have a bludgeoning weapon on my paladin and it hasn't affected me yet.

Also, you might want to consider going with an Oath of Vengeance paladin as the only thing you give up is the ability to channel, which is lackluster, and you gain possible extra uses of Smite Evil.


I'd take a 8 on the wisdom and the trait that turns perception into a class skill (eyes and ears of the city{Abadar}). That's pretty usefull for a frontline fighter.

I use an Aasimar Paladin myself in a kingmaker campaign and I am the party spotter because of the large bonus the trait provided. As a metagaming tip: prepared adventures usually have loads of Surprises and Loot hidden somewhere and it's nice not to be surprised when ambushed and great to spot treasure as well. After all we need funds for our good works. I started with a +9 in spot and a +11 in diplomacy and I may add, that both skills worked out very well for me. We did have a 25 point buy, but you'd still be able to get a +7 on perception at level 1 I rekon, if you raise your base wis to 8.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i think it would probably work fine... although, i'm no expert on Society play- i think there's actually a separate sub-forum that's specifically for PFS questions, you might want to try asking this there?

as for the mechanics of what you have...
-race- i love it, aasimar make great paladins;
-stats- fine... personally, i wouldn't pay 2 points to go from 13 Int to 14; i also wouldn't drop my Wis all the way to 7; but those are personal preferences; i'd also be tempted to drop Con to 12 (since most of your effective hp come from your ability to heal yourself as a swift action)- though you might want to wait til you have to lock in your build at 2nd level to change that; any points you pick up from dropping any stat should go into Str or Cha.
-traits- armor expert is probably not a great choice... with only 12 dex you're probably not going to be taking any/many of the skills that the armor check penalty applies to; any of the other ones are fine choices though.
-feats- i wouldn't bother with deadly aim, with 12 dex you're not gonna be using a bow hardly at all, and when you do you won't want to take the penalty to hit; use that extra slot for one of the feats you mentioned, or greater mercy.
-items- looks like a pretty good, well-rounded list. you shouldn't need a silver item at 1st level, just watch for an opportunity to buy one in play.


Consider starting as an Oracle of Lore for 1lvl dip. With the Sidestep Secret revelation you can add CHA to AC and Reflex save, allowing you to dump Dex. Start with these stats (before racial modifiers) for Unsanctioned knowledge:

STR 16
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 12 (+1 at 4th lvl)
WIS 7 (+1 at 12th lvl)
CHA 15 (+1 at 8th lvl)

or with these if you choose to ignore Unsanctioned knowledge:

STR 17 (+1 at 4th, 8th, 12th lvl)
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 16

I would suggest to take something else instead, at these lvls you will add only 2 new spells, not enough IMO, especially when Pala already has some very good spells but has limited castings per day. I would probably take two Extra lay on Hands at 5th and 7th lvl.

I also suggest that you take the Oath against Vengence archetype. I also personaly like Exalted Resistance and Heavenborn in addition to Scion of Humanity.

Silver Crusade

If you're going to go lore oracle, there's no reason not to have a 7 Dex.


I don't think Magical Knack is legal in Society, I could be wrong though.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
If you're going to go lore oracle, there's no reason not to have a 7 Dex.

You still use it for Initiative and CMD.


Thank you all for your advice!

Clectabled wrote:


If you are going Fey Foundling, (I did as well), I was going to select greater Mercy as my 3rd lvl feat as it adds a D6 of healing if you Lay on Hands and don't need the mercy. That not only adds the d6, but an additional 2 points for the fey foundling.

Greater Mercy - Benefit: When you use your lay on hands ability and the target of that ability does not have any conditions your mercies can remove, it instead heals an additional +1d6 points of damage.

I will take Power Attack at 5th however. The Ultimate Mercy looks like it’s a must have as well, be able to raise dead for free (if I take a neg lvl for 24 hours) Without a dedicated healer in the group I figured that would be a good use of my Lay on Hands as well

Greater mercy adds on average 5,5 healing which i guess is not bad for a feat and a better candidate than deadly aim. Wouldn't extra lay on hand add more virtual hitpoints though? Does delaying power attack till lvl 5 affect DPR much? Hm perhaps it is more useful at lvl 5 than at lvl 3.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I recommend against taking Deathless Spirit. Negative energy damage will be much less frequent than any of the others.

I thought that the racial would be substituted by the spell resist energy pretty quickly. Don’t forget that Deathless spirit gives a bonus to saves against death effects energy drain, negative energy, and spells or spell-like abilities of the necromancy school as well. Do you think Exalted Resistance is better?

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Your stats look fine, but you may want to consider getting your Cha up to a 16 and your Str to a 17 if you can, probably at the expense of Int. You'll never be a high skill class, but that decision is entirely up to you.

I like skill points to much I am afraid to lower my int. I am planning on having linguistics, perception, use magic device, diplomacy and sense motive as max skills ( perhaps lower linguistics a little to but on some knowledge for fluff reasons). Knowing a lot of languages helps with the litany line of spells and is a nice rp element.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Dangerously Curious is an awesome trait for a paladin, especially since Cha is a primary (or secondary, depending on how you look at it) ability for them. I took it on my PFS paladin and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Yea I can see the synergy. My only problem with wands is the standard action cost (meaning aside from one casting it has too much opportunity cost in battle) and the short duration most spells have. What do you think about the magical Knack? It’s the only way aside from some ion stone to raise caster level but is it useful to a paladin? Sadly I can’t take both (both are magic traits) or else I would have called it a day.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As for your feats, why are you taking Power Attack and Deadly Aim? You have a rather pathetic Dex, so ranged attacks aren't ever going to be a strong suit for you. Might I suggest Greater Mercy instead of Deadly Aim? Fey Foundling is an amazing trait for a paladin, and don't let anybody ever convince you not to take it. I've never looked into Unsanctioned knowledge, but I can't imagine it's that strong of a feat seeing as you don't get that many spells per day anyway. My paladin is level 5 with a 20 in Cha and only gets 3 per day. You could probably put that feat to better use as well with something like Cleave of Furious Focus.

I was suggested to take greater mercy again and I have to admit I only put deadly aim in there to have a range option as well but you are correct I would miss a lot. Having use magic device kinda makes Unsanctioned knowledge less attractive but I am still not convinced it’s a bad feat choice.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As far as your gear goes, I love the choice of a nodachi. My paladin uses a nodachi and carries a cold iron longsword for when she needs the extra AC from her shield or to dispatch demons. Might I suggest upgrading to a quickdraw shield when you have the gold for it so you can get your shield and weapon out in a single move action? I don't particularly see the need for a spiked gauntlet, since you have another one-handed weapon, unless it's a flavor purchase for you. After your first scenario, pick up a silversheen light mace, although I can honestly say I still don't have a bludgeoning weapon on my paladin and it hasn't affected me yet

Yea I think the choices I made on the items were the more reasonable ones thanks! The Spiked gauntlet is there just in case I get disarmed or have my weapon sundered or need a light weapon to use at grapples.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Also, you might want to consider going with an Oath of Vengeance paladin as the only thing you give up is the ability to channel, which is lackluster, and you gain possible extra uses of Smite Evil.

Yep I am going for that! If I understand it correctly I have to worship Iomedae or Torag right?. If so Iomedae it is.

Snowleopard wrote:
I'd take a 8 on the wisdom and the trait that turns perception into a class skill (eyes and ears of the city{Abadar}). That's pretty usefull for a frontline fighter.

Hm… going from 7 to 8 will only improve perception by 1 so I don’t think it is that necessary. I am already putting points on perception Abadar is not a bad at all to worship as deity but can I take oath of vengeance with him as a god? The trait is really nice thanks for the catch!

nate lange wrote:

i think it would probably work fine... although, i'm no expert on Society play- i think there's actually a separate sub-forum that's specifically for PFS questions, you might want to try asking this there?

as for the mechanics of what you have...
-race- i love it, aasimar make great paladins;
-stats- fine... personally, i wouldn't pay 2 points to go from 13 Int to 14; i also wouldn't drop my Wis all the way to 7; but those are personal preferences; i'd also be tempted to drop Con to 12 (since most of your effective hp come from your ability to heal yourself as a swift action)- though you might want to wait til you have to lock in your build at 2nd level to change that; any points you pick up from dropping any stat should go into Str or Cha.
-traits- armor expert is probably not a great choice... with only 12 dex you're probably not going to be taking any/many of the skills that the armor check penalty applies to; any of the other ones are fine choices though.
-feats- i wouldn't bother with deadly aim, with 12 dex you're not gonna be using a bow hardly at all, and when you do you won't want to take the penalty to hit; use that extra slot for one of the feats you mentioned, or greater mercy.
-items- looks like a pretty good, well-rounded list. you shouldn't need a silver item at 1st level, just watch for an opportunity to buy one in play.

With this deadly aim is out of the picture for good as well as armor expert. I have 16 str after racials and 17 cha I think the opportunity cost would be too high to get an 18 on str will fiddle with the thought some more.

XMorsX wrote:
Consider starting as an Oracle of Lore for 1lvl dip. With the Sidestep Secret revelation you can add CHA to AC and Reflex save, allowing you to dump Dex. Start with these stats (before racial modifiers) for Unsanctioned knowledge

Hm 1 level dip would cost me 1 bab and probably some spell slots and a caster level for my paladin spells. It is tempting though... very tempting at what level would I be better served to dip? Third?

Aaron Burr wrote:
I don't think Magical Knack is legal in Society, I could be wrong though.

It used to be non-legal but it changed recently… I am not sure how good it is. With it you are only lagging 1 caster lvl behind and with an ion stone you have caster level equal to your level. I guess it doesn’t matter seeing as use magic device is better

Once again thank you for your words of wisdom if you have any more you are welcome to share them with me


Take the dip at Lore Oracle at first lvl. No reason not too. At first lvl you need all the AC you can get too.


XMorsX wrote:
Take the dip at Lore Oracle at first lvl. No reason not too. At first lvl you need all the AC you can get too.

-1 bab, even slower to get to the really good paladin spells. Sure you can go all cheesy with side step secret and noble scion of war (lol) but full paladin isn't gimp.

Silver Crusade

As far as who you need to worship for Oath of Vengeance, I'm not entirely sure. My OoV paladin is a worshiper of Ragathiel (the god of vengeance) and I have never been told that is illegal. Mechanics wise who you worship as a paladin doesn't make a whole lot of difference since you don't get weapon proficiencies.

As for Magical Knack, yes it is PFS legal now, but I don't recommend it. I can almost guarantee you at least one of your spells will be Hero's Defiance. That and most paladin spells have little benefit from a higher caster level.

As soon as you can, pick up a wand of shield and a vibrant cracked purple prism ioun stone. It will allow you to cast shield on yourself without a UMD check.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

if you're looking for the optimal way to add more magical ability to your paladin, i think dangerously curious is probably the best place to start... if you want to go farther than that i think you might actually be better off taking skill focus [UMD] than taking unsanctioned knowledge: the skill focus makes any wand you get your hands on pretty reliable and gives a nice boost for higher level scrolls, where (in society play) you're only really looking at getting two extra spells from Unsanctioned Knowledge (maybe a 3rd for your last level or two, depending on dip), and for the majority of your adventuring career its unlikely that you'll get more than 6-8 spells per day (but with UMD you could conceivably blow throw an entire wand of fireballs in a day if you needed to).

edit: of course, i've taken Unsanctioned Knowledge on two separate (non-PFS) pallies... so take that advice for what its worth. and always remember rule #1: have fun.

Shadow Lodge

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Quote:
Angel-blooded Aasimar ( Human would probably be better but I like the fluff of the race) as alternative racial traits I chose Deathless spirit , Scion of Humanity and Truespeaker
Not seeing the need for Deathless Spirit (since, as a paladin, you are the guy in the party least likely to blow a fortitude save versus any death effects); giving up those free resistances for those times when you're eating half-damage, or when swallowed, is hard to justify trading away. Scion is OK. Truthseeker I like a lot (Sense Motive is much more useful to you than Perception).
Quote:

-str: 14

-dex: 12
-con: 14
-int: 14
-wis: 7
-cha: 15
Congrats on taking my favorite 15,14,14,14,12,07 array -- and don't let anybody talk you out of dumping wisdom in a paladin (especially for PFS). But switch INT and DEX -- there are no campaign impediments preventing you from buying heavy eastern armors with better AC/DEX ratios; and your AC is going to get beat on ten times more often than you'll find yourself wishing you had that 4th skill.
Quote:
Magical Knack or Dangerously Curious or Armor Expert or Reactionary or Birthmark.
IMO, Dangerously Curious and Reactionary. Failing some mobility-related skill checks at low levels is made up for by not having a wasted trait by the time you're flying at higher levels. Or trading Reactionary for something. (I don't mind going last as a paladin.)
Quote:

Fey foundling (lvl1)

Power attack (lvl3)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl5)
Deadly aim or Unsanctioned knowledge (lvl7)

I like Fey Foundling a lot.

IMO, suck in your gut and take Quick Draw at 3rd. Buy a light quickdraw shield. Broaden your inventory to include ranged, polearms, heavy and light melee. Be that guy in the party that always has the right instrument at all times. Then take Power Attack and Deadly Aim. Unsantioned is nice -- but by the time you have enough slots/day to even use it, you can just UMD a consumable. I'd trade it for Vital Strike, Mounted Combat, or something else you're likely to use more than once per encounter.


@XMorsX I was really tempted for that oracle dip and the scion of war combo but i think that would work better with a human to grab fey foundling as well the mechanical benefits are great but i will stick to full paladin thanks for the good advice though.

@Bigdaddyjug Ok use magic device trait it is! and I wont be taking unsanctioned knowledge as well so it even better now. Will see what I will do for the last trait... +3 on perception or +2 on initiative.

@nate lange yep I will pick dangerously curious. Will think about the focus as well

@Sir Thugsalot will think about the switch in stats between dex and int. Its realy sad that martial class get so few skill points. But between diplomacy, perception, use magic device sense motive and linguistics I find it hard to drop one. Perception I am going with a -2 and perhaps i should drop it and just come to terms with sucking at it but it is the most common skill rolled. Linguistics inst really that useful but I get 2 languages instead of one per point and some paladins spells are language depended plus its is fun knowing 24 languages! Now as far as quick draw is concerned I don't see me taking it. Ideally I would have the spell shield up by level 2 and my 2handed nodatchi at hand

You guys are awesome Thank you all for taking time to share your views and tricks with me

Silver Crusade

For a second trait, I'll be rather unhelpful. My paladin is a tiefling, so my second trait was Suicidal, but it's a tiefling only trait. Although it is the perfect trait for a paladin. If you decide to forgo skills, look into a demon spawn tiefling for your paladin.


That's ok I Don't like Abatar as a God (my paladin would emphasize more the aspect of lawful than good) so I am leaning on reactionary. Yea that trait is awesome for a tiefling

Shadow Lodge

ArchangelAzrael wrote:
@Sir Thugsalot will think about the switch in stats between dex and int. Its realy sad that martial class get so few skill points. But between diplomacy, perception, use magic device sense motive and linguistics I find it hard to drop one.

Well that's easy: don't bother putting a single rank into either Perception or Linguistics. Everybody else at the table will have Perception jacked to the nines ("It's the most important skill in the game! Blah-blah-blah..."); and I'd be shocked if you ever absolutely need Celestial (I'm assuming you want Linguistics to get back the language you forfeiting with a racial trait choice); since you're a UMD paladin, a few a scrolls of Tongues should do.

-- Stick to what you're good at, and resist the siren call of Perception (because that will tempt you into not relegating paladin WIS score to a dump stat). Suppose you put ranks exclusively into raising Diplomacy, Sense Motive and Use Magic Device every single level....now compare yourself to a human fighter with dumped INT putting his 2/lvl into much less useful junk. Compared to him, you're a genius with 100% of your points into very useful stuff. So, INT 12 is sufficient.

So, go for the DEX. Melee paladins are front-line shock troops who get wailed on hard. Your AC should be best-in-party versus evil, and tied-for-best versus anything else.

Wing feats: they look pretty, but by the time you get them, fly-granting items are well within your means...something to think about.


For traits, I like Seeker (basically the same thing as Eyes and Ears of the City but without the Abadar restriction) and Magical Knack is a fine choice. That +2 to your CL comes in handy for buffs like Divine Favor, and later on Divine Power that you get from Unsanctioned Knowledge. Myself I like the trait Extremely Fashionable from Ultimate Equipment which allows you to get +1 on Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate, and let's you get Intimidate as a class skill, which is very useful.

I don't think your stats include racial bonuses, so people shouldn't forget that you actually have a 16 STR, and thanks to your SLA you can alter self into something and have an 18 when you need it most.

UMD is not really that needed on a paladin, you can already use a wand of CLW without rolling one which is the main attraction to other people using UMD in PFS games afaik.

I say Oath of Vengeance is overrated, since you really don't need to smite everything in order to kill it, most things you can take down in one or two shots anyway at low levels, especially once you get Power Attack at lvl 3. That said, it's not a bad choice. Wyrm gives you Fly as a spell and Bear's Endurance as well as Enlarge Person which makes it really good as well.

Lvl 5 should be Unsanctioned Knowledge so you have access to your 1st and 2nd level spells as soon as possible. I like Bladed Dash myself, but Heroism and as I said earlier Alter Self also make nice additions to your repertoire. The other really good spells to look at are Haste and Divine Power.

Lvl 7 I like Furious Focus, by level 8 it nets you a +3 on your most important attack, the first one. Getting that much attack bonus off one feat you're not gonna beat. Especially if you have to move and can only make one attack anyway.

I like the Angel Wings feats, but remember you need to have ranks in Fly in order to actually do it, which you cannot do without means of flight, though you will gain Fly as a class skill at that point, I recommend an Ioun Stone that grants +2 INT and has Fly as its associated skill when you hit lvl 11, that should mitigate that and cost less than upgrading to a headband of mental prowess.

But for real, Intimidate is an amazing skill, causing enemies to be shaken effectively gives you +2 AC, if you want Cornugon Smash will actually let you do it as a free action after you hit someone with a Power Attack, and Dreadful Carnage will let you do it to all enemies within sight after you drop a foe, if you decide not to go the Angel Wings route.

Overall I love this build, it should be really fun for you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well dang now I want to make a pally...*must resist alt temptation*

Shadow Lodge

master_marshmallow wrote:
For traits, I like Seeker (basically the same thing as Eyes and Ears of the City but without the Abadar restriction)
Bah. Just another way for a paladin to raise his Perception score from utterly worthless to totally crappy.
Quote:
Magical Knack is a fine choice.
...taken via Additional Traits at a level where it'll actually be worth something.
Quote:
I say Oath of Vengeance is overrated, since you really don't need to smite everything in order to kill it.
Agreed. OoV also nerfs your auras.
Quote:
Lvl 7 I like Furious Focus, by level 8 it nets you a +3 on your most important attack, the first one. Getting that much attack bonus off one feat you're not gonna beat.

Caveat: you're now spending two feats for extra melee damage in a feat-starved class. IMO, PA+FF are a trap at BAB8+ when you have a full-attack available, with an iterative relegated to PA-8 (and going from half-a-chance to almost no chance). If you don't have a full-attack, then Vital Strike covers more situations (including ranged and light weapons) and has no feat or stat prerequisites (i.e., STR:12 halflings paladins rejoice); it also scales much better if you're enlarged.


Thanks for the heads up! Sorry i was late to respond but I had gone away for the weekend and there was no internet! The horror! Anyways….

@Sir Thugsalot & master_marshmallow: The problem with Magical knack is that i can choose that or dangerously curious but not both since both are magic traits. If I choose one I will have to skip the other. Taken this into account and the advice giver i believe use magic device is better.

@master_marshmallow: I can’t find "Seeker" trait can you tell me where it is from? I think Veteran Jungle Guide is a good alternative if i choose to go perception.
With UMD I can do a lot more than heal out of combat. For buffs i have Enlarge Person, Shield , Lead Blade, Expeditious Retreat, Touch of the Sea, Feather Step, Long strider and that’s from lvl 1 and i might have missed some that have longish durations. If I actually buy with gold some wants i get access to natural armor and deflection bonus and other goodies
Unsanctioned knowledge is tempting but as it has been pointed out i will have very few spell slots to work with and as a PFS character I don’t think I will reach ever 4th lvl spells.
Furious focus I don’t see me taking it although the intimidating feats were really nice.

@Sir Thugsalot a wisdom based class at level 12 will have 16+2 from race +2 from leveling up + 4 item = 24 wisdom give or take. Now that’s a plus 7 modifier and with the -2 i have that 45% better chance than me to succeed a perception check all other things equal. My question is are the DC at lvl 12 so hard that only a guy with a wisdom 24 could hope to succeed? Now oath of vengeance is cool at the smaller levels so you can mark more than once but I will think about it a little more.
Last thing getting a plus 1 on dex will give me 1 more AC 1 more on refl and 1 more Init. You seem to be focused on AC too much I think. At level 1 I have 19 AC that should be more than enough to help me survive. After that I will have lay on hands for HP and spells from Use Magic Device. Is it that more useful than 1 ac from 12 skill points over the long run?

Shadow Lodge

A 12th-level paladin has a lot better things to spend his money on than a WIS+4 upgrade to his headband when wisdom is his dump stat -- which it totally is in Pathfinder because Pathfinder paladins use charisma for their spellcasting.

Quote:
Is it that more useful than 1 ac from 12 skill points over the long run?

AC+1 is hella better than a fourth skill, and way hella better than your sixth skill (which is effectively what it represents if the paladin spends that spare cash upgrading his headband to INT+4 rather than WIS).

-- What's your least-used skill that you'll ever have max ranks in (because, in the long run, those are the only ones that really matter sans extreme buffing)? Compare to how many times your AC gets checked in combat.


For the record, I am with Sir Thugsalot on the topic of getting your hands on Perception as a class skill, there really should be someone else in the group (probably everyone else) who will have it maxed for the sake of finding enemies, secret passages, etc.

Seeker is a trait from Ultimate Campaign, if you are still interested.

Unsanctioned Knowledge is good for access to Haste and Bladed Dash, on a human build I recommend Alter Self for access to Darkvision with the +2 size bonus to STR by... turning into an Aasimar.

Also AC is good, especially in PFS where it really matters.


@ Sir Thugsalot you have convinced me about perception and I won’t be taking it. I Had forgotten that in PF int gives you skills in retro verse. So that’s 14 dex Unsanctioned knowledge i will leave for latter to decide if i should take it or not.
@master_marshmallow those are some good spells but with 12 int I don’t qualify for the feat unless i put some resource into intelligence

Thank you both!

Shadow Lodge

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My currently 7th level elf wizard with a hawk familiar, Eyes and Ears of the City trait and Eyes of the Eagle currently has a Perception score of +21/+24(daylight). He's about 50/50 spotting monsters built for stealth, and 0% to spot an invisible Will O'Wisp (he's one point shy being able to do so by rolling a 20).

The hawk's Perception is +20.

-- It was pretty easy to convince the rest of the party to not waste their time putting points into it. Maxed out, they're still going to be -10 my score on a good day; and would likely never see anything with maxed Stealth unless, like my wizard, they have literally five things racking up stacking bonuses. (His five are: elven racial bonus, familiar's Alertness, familiar animal type, trait, item. Since wizards do not have MAD problems, I could start with a 20 INT and still have points to spread around for a 12 wisdom as my 4th costliest stat.)

For a paladin to get Perception from zilch to "looks like a good number, but is actually still worthless" requires jacking WIS from 7 to 12 (costing you almost a third of your 20 point-buy), half of your traits (to obtain Perception as a class skill), and 25% to 50% of your skillpoints (depending upon how stupid you made him -- and he's likely dumb as a stump with a 7 shunted to INT in order to pay for CHA and an attack stack both 16+).

Don't do it.


ArchangelAzrael wrote:

@ Sir Thugsalot you have convinced me about perception and I won't be taking it. I Had forgotten that in PF int gives you skills in retro verse. So that's 14 dex Unsanctioned knowledge i will leave for latter to decide if i should take it or not.

@master_marshmallow those are some good spells but with 12 int I don't qualify for the feat unless i put some resource into intelligence

Thank you both!

So what do you guys think are the best Spell options to take with Unsanctioned knowledge?

I briefly went through the spells and came up with these.
- Truestrike
- Mirror Image
- Displacement
- Ward Shield

Not sure on Ward Shield.

Do any of these really warrant not memorizing the Instant action or Swift Action Spells available?


1) Shield of Faith
2) Bladed Dash
3) Haste (if no oath of vengence or if you choose greater invisibility as your 4th lvl spell) / Displacement (if oath and no gr inv)
4) Blessing of fervor (if no oath of vengence and yes haste) / Divine Power (if oath and no haste) / Greater Invisibility


XMorsX wrote:

1) Shield of Faith

2) Bladed Dash
3) Haste (if no oath of vengence or if you choose greater invisibility as your 4th lvl spell) / Displacement (if oath and no gr inv)
4) Blessing of fervor (if no oath of vengence and yes haste) / Divine Power (if oath and no haste) / Greater Invisibility

Shield of faith is a deflection bonus that wont stack with Smite. Great option at early levels, but a Paladin is 4th level (CL 1) before he can get it. and 10th lvl before it's a +2.

Not a worthy spell in my mind.

Bladed Dash.. Nice.

Haste - I really had to think about this, I selected Displacement more due to party makeup over anything. In any given combat, if you have an arcane caster, this spell is likely to be cast by them. Displacement is usually only cast if the spell caster has nothing better to do, and I like having control on when I get the 50% miss chance. In addition only 1 level after I get this spell, I can add speed to the weapon for free.

Greater Invisibility is a great choice, however any Paladin that has a Code that includes honorable combat may have problems using that spell.
I have had GM's that I think would call it either way. Personally if I was GM'ing and I had a Paladin with Honorable Combat code, I would not allow him to use it.


Clectabled wrote:
XMorsX wrote:

1) Shield of Faith

2) Bladed Dash
3) Haste (if no oath of vengence or if you choose greater invisibility as your 4th lvl spell) / Displacement (if oath and no gr inv)
4) Blessing of fervor (if no oath of vengence and yes haste) / Divine Power (if oath and no haste) / Greater Invisibility

Shield of faith is a deflection bonus that wont stack with Smite. Great option at early levels, but a Paladin is 4th level (CL 1) before he can get it. and 10th lvl before it's a +2.

Not a worthy spell in my mind.

Bladed Dash.. Nice.

Haste - I really had to think about this, I selected Displacement more due to party makeup over anything. In any given combat, if you have an arcane caster, this spell is likely to be cast by them. Displacement is usually only cast if the spell caster has nothing better to do, and I like having control on when I get the 50% miss chance. In addition only 1 level after I get this spell, I can add speed to the weapon for free.

Greater Invisibility is a great choice, however any Paladin that has a Code that includes honorable combat may have problems using that spell.
I have had GM's that I think would call it either way. Personally if I was GM'ing and I had a Paladin with Honorable Combat code, I would not allow him to use it.

I thought that deflection bonuses stack, my mistake there. Wrath is a decent alternative. I agree about greater invisibility. Another minus is that now the enemies target your allies instead of you, which is generally bad. I felt that it should be mentioned though.


XMorsX wrote:


I thought that deflection bonuses stack, my mistake there. Wrath is a decent alternative. I agree about greater invisibility. Another minus is that now the enemies target your allies instead of you, which is generally bad. I felt that it should be mentioned though.

No worries.

If you have taken the Oath of Vengeance, you get wrath as your bonus spell. Terrific spell to have either way though.

Here are someother options specifically from the Inquisitor list that I like.
Cause Fear - It's on the AntiPaladin list. Generally making someone run away is a good way to defeat them. May not be great to force bad guys to flea ( cause then you have to chase them down). Good for battles against animals or charmed folks you dont really want to hurt.

Expeditious Retreat - Hey, you wearing VERY heavy armor, nuff said.

Longshot - If your an archer Paladin.

Weaponwand - They may be some very interesting options here.


XMorsX wrote:

1) Shield of Faith

2) Bladed Dash
3) Haste (if no oath of vengence or if you choose greater invisibility as your 4th lvl spell) / Displacement (if oath and no gr inv)
4) Blessing of fervor (if no oath of vengence and yes haste) / Divine Power (if oath and no haste) / Greater Invisibility

I'm pretty sure Blessing of Fervor is a 5th level spell for anyone other than an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, it might be 4th on the Inquistor list though, not too sure.

Divine Favor is my personal favorite for 4th level spells.


master_marshmallow wrote:


Divine Favor is my personal favorite for 4th level spells.

Divine Favor is a 1st lvl spell, did you mean something else?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i'm guessing he meant divine power


nate lange wrote:
i'm guessing he meant divine power

Probably correct and he is right, That is an awesome spell to take as part of Unsanctioned Knowledge.

Shadow Lodge

Unsanctioned Knowledge (feat) is for those paladins who didn't take Dangerously Curious (trait) and buy consumables. The latter route is far more flexible.


master_marshmallow wrote:
XMorsX wrote:

1) Shield of Faith

2) Bladed Dash
3) Haste (if no oath of vengence or if you choose greater invisibility as your 4th lvl spell) / Displacement (if oath and no gr inv)
4) Blessing of fervor (if no oath of vengence and yes haste) / Divine Power (if oath and no haste) / Greater Invisibility

I'm pretty sure Blessing of Fervor is a 5th level spell for anyone other than an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, it might be 4th on the Inquistor list though, not too sure.

Divine Favor is my personal favorite for 4th level spells.

According to the d20pfsrd, Blessing of fervor is a 4th lvl spell.

Divine Power is a better self-buff, blessing of fervor is almost as good though and your allies take advantage of it too. I guess it comes down to what other buffs are available (with haste cast frequently on you divine power drops in importance) and of course your preference.


I miss Battle Blessing...


master_marshmallow wrote:
I miss Battle Blessing...

An awesome feat indeed. They partialy make up for it by giving paladin a lot of swift action spells which are actually good, like litany of righteousness.


3.5 had Rhino's rush which was essentially the same spell.

Shadow Lodge

Clectabled wrote:

So what do you guys think are the best Spell options to take with Unsanctioned knowledge?

I briefly went through the spells and came up with these.
- Truestrike
- Mirror Image
- Displacement
- Ward Shield

None of them.

Take Dangerously Curious, and buy a wand of Longstrider for 750 hours of +10 movement. Hell, buy a few scrolls of it too for back-up on those day you roll a 1 for your wand's UMD check.

-- This is especially good for paladins who choose weapon bond, and therefore are on foot suffering armor penalties to movement.


Effortless Armor?

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It only lasts one stinking minute a level -- and it's a 2nd-level spell? ...I wouldn't memorize it as a 1st-level spell.

Bleh.


Well, it's better than nothing until you get your hands on that Mithral Celestial Plate Armor, it's only 35,000 gps!!!!

Or a Ring of Freedom of Movement, whichever happens first.

In any case, I don't like Dangerously Curious on the paladin, mostly because I have other skills that need my attention, mainly Intimidate and Diplomacy, along with some ranks into Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Knowledges. I tend to pick 2 or three skills to max out, and spend the other skill point(s) spreading out to get all my favored class bonuses. Adding UMD to that list doesn't do much for me unless I have a retarded CHA score (which I have done once, I had a 32) otherwise I would want that skill maxed as well.

Also what about a wand of effortless armor? It doesn't require a UMD check. Or am I crazy?

Shadow Lodge

If you have UMD, why would you not buy a wand of Longstrider for 750gp (or better yet, 2 prestige-points in PFS)?

That spell is so good that I'm surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet.


Sir Thugsalot wrote:

If you have UMD, why would you not buy a wand of Longstrider for 750gp (or better yet, 2 prestige-points in PFS)?

That spell is so good that I'm surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet.

Expeditious Retreat is a better spell.. Same level, 3x the movement bonus and available to 5 more classes than Longstrider. Still not available to a Paladin however.


Clectabled wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:

If you have UMD, why would you not buy a wand of Longstrider for 750gp (or better yet, 2 prestige-points in PFS)?

That spell is so good that I'm surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet.

Expeditious Retreat is a better spell.. Same level, 3x the movement bonus and available to 5 more classes than Longstrider. Still not available to a Paladin however.

Unsanctioned Knowledge


Buying a wand is far more efficient than expending a feat.

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