Fun thing to note is that Survival is a Wisdom based skill and Lore is Int, so your character only has +2 to either of them, while the rest of your peers at those would have a +4 (since they would have two boosts to either Int or Wis by now). It's one of the reasons you're never sent out to scout alone, thought that's just fine by you as well I'm guessing since you're so social.
It's a great question.
The save stats are still Dex, Con, and Wis, so they're still always valuable for everyone, and Con determines HP as well.
The difference from first edition is that Dex has been nerfed pretty well. It's no longer the default initiative stat, and the weapons have been rebalanced so finesse weapons definitely do less damage than they could in first edition and I don't think arrow spam is nearly the same in 2nd as it was in 1st. It's still great of course.
Strength has become relatively more important because of this, it is THE damage and combat maneuver stat.
Cha, and Int are still there for social and skill purposes, with Cha also being great for charisma casters. They actually tried to buff Cha in the playtest by tying it to how many magic items they could use, I'm sad they backed away from that honestly though the playtest implementation was kinda bad.
I'd say Int is the most specialized, it's very much the knowledge stat. Important of course, but not for every character. Cha is a close second.
I've got some tables in my doc. Here's the ugly copy/paste of it.
Attributes Table:
Ability Changes
STR Melee attack and damage rolls, the athletics skill
DEX Reflex saving throw, ranged and finesse attack rolls, armor class, the acrobatics, stealth, and thievery skills
CON Fortitude saving throws, hit points
INT Intelligence based magic power, the Arcana, Crafting, Lore, Occultism, and Society skills
WIS Will saving throws, Wisdom based magic power, Perception, the Medicine, Nature, Religion, and Survival skills
CHA Charisma based magic power, The Deception, Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Performance Skills
Skill Table:
Skill Description Examples of tasks
Acrobatics Tasks requiring coordination and grace Balancing on a ledge, escaping from restraints.
Arcana Knowledge of arcane magics. Learn an arcane spell, identify features of a magical creation.
Athletics Tasks requiring strength and power. Breaking a door, wrestle a foe in combat.
Crafting The ability to create and repair items Earn income by creating goods for market, repair a broken shield
Deception The ability to trick and mislead Impersonate another person, feint a foe in combat
Diplomacy The ability to influence and negotiate. Gather information, make a request of a non player character.
Intimidation The ability to threaten and force people to do your bidding. Bully a non player character into doing something you want, demoralize a foe in combat.
Lore Knowledge of some specialized subject. For example Herbalism Lore. Use knowledge to practice a trade and earn income, recall relevant information on subject.
Medicine The ability to identify and treat medical issues. Treating Wounds or diseases. Identifying cause of death.
Nature The ability to handle animals, knowledge of primal magics. Command animals, learn prima spells, identify features of a natural animal.
Occultism Knowledge of occult magics and topics. Decipher writings, learn occult spells, identify features of an aberrant creature.
Performance The ability to entertain people. Put on a show, earn an income.
Religion Knowledge of divine magics and topics. Identify faiths, learn divine spells, identify features of planar beings.
Society Knowledge of communities of peoples and how to act in them. Create forgeries, identify the important people in a society.
Stealth The ability to avoid notice. Hide from notice, conceal an object from being discovered.
Survival The ability to survive in the wilderness, knowledge of natural environments. Navigate the wilderness, follow someone’s trail, cover tracks.
Thievery The ability to get past security measures through dextrous maneuvers. Pick a pocket, disable a trap, conceal objects.
@Asta Being a Guard requires as much skill with social interaction as it does with Strength.
Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Strength or Charisma, and one is a free ability boost.
You're trained in the Intimidation skill and the Legal Lore or Warfare Lore skill. You gain the Quick Coercion skill feat.
So choose your ability boosts, whether you leaned more towards the legal side or the brawling side of being a guard, and the Quick Coerceion skill fight.
The ability boosts go into the abilities, the Skills has a place to tick Intimidation up to Trained, fill in your lore and put it at Trained, and the feat section should have a place for background skill, Quick Coercion goes in there. The character sheet will give +3 for the proficiency but you're not level 1 yet, so just remember it's actually +2.
Oh yeah let's start putting the benefits of your human heritage in! Put in your Canny Accumen (will) in as a Skill feat on your character sheet as well.... which means your proficiency in will Saves shoots up to Expert. You get +4 proficiency to your Will save (It'll be +5 when you hit Level 1) . Truly impressive for one so young!
OK, so I've put skill boosts into Str and Cha (decided that she would rely on Str and Cha the most for her job - Str to hurt bad guys, Cha to intimidate people into compliance).
Sheet us updated.
Still pondering classes, looking at the magus. They've got some subclass? stuff for shooting people and that might be fun.
Yup Lessah, check out the Starlin Span 'Hybrid Study' of the Magus and see if it tickles your fancy.
Intimidation is really a great option in the game Asta.
Asta what lore skill did you decide to go with? Warfare or Legal?
I think legal fits her better than warfare.
How do you guys feel going into the holidays in terms of posting rate? Also are you guys having fun? Feel like you're learning the game? Want to continue?
@Lessah there's also things like the Eldritch Trickster 'Racket' of the Rogue that might fit (Racket is pretty much the Rogue equivalent of a subclass)
I'll readily admit I'm slacking a bit, don't want to finish up too quickly :p (98% chance it'll be magus though)
It is and has been fun. The crunchy bit of my mind chaffs a bit at bit knowing all the things, but that's fine for learning :)
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For the past weeks the work's been crazy, so I'm quite slow on posting. I wouldn't want to stress about the game during the holiday's, but could post if I find the time. So maybe keeping this quite relaxed pace?
And this is quite fun, actually. Nice to build a character out of storytelling instead of just optimizing the heck out of it (which is of the case with PF)
So I'm very interested with continuing (if you can stand my slow pace).
Oh yeah, no pressure, one on one makes it easy to go slower or faster as needed also. It's all for fun and breaks from real life craziness when we can afford the time to do so.
Plopped down Magus in my sheet. Summary:
+2str
key modified: dex
+9hp (8+con bonus)
Proficiency
T in perception
E in fort, T in ref, E in will
T in arcana + 4 more (2+ int mod): acrobatics, diplomacy, medicine, stealth
T in simple, martial and unarmed weapons
T in light, medium and unarmoured armour
T in arcane atk/dc
Arcane Cascade, Spellstrike class features
Hybrid Studies/Conflux Spells - Starlit Span/Shooting Stars
Spellbook (8 cantrips, 4 level 1): Dancing Lights, Infectious Enthusiasm, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Aura, Shield, Produce Flame, Tanglefoot; Colour Spray, Snowball, Summon Animal & True Strike
Pew that was actually kinda meaty. Lots of neat stuff moved to cantrips, which is nice. Can't shake the feeling though that magic still wears the options crown? (Though plenty of magic seems quite minor, so that's nice/fairer then 1st ed :p)
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End of semester crunch here ended last week. I always get excited for the holidays and forget that the ramp up to the semester's end in academia is brutal. So I've not been able to give much attention to PBP and would be fine with the relaxed pace.
Agreed with the others that this is fun. Thanks, GM!
Spells are still the classic 3.x design of thousands of unique effects so yeah, magus especially gets to play with both the magic AND martial toys. The consensus is magic has been nerfred in various ways throughout the game though. Basically if you want to do damage, you're not going to be able to outshine a martial, though, again, magus gets both sides!
You only got one boost and that's to Dex this stage right Lessah?
Also how do you think your sprite went into getting trained as a magus? Bit of a change from Root worker. Is there some sort of school? A mentor? Are you still in your forest or did you basically go off to university?
Also what's your weapon of choice?
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I put the boost into Str, so it's neutral at least.
Also had to pick a key ability modifier - which *looked* like I could pick either - so I picked dex for that one. So whatever class features I get scale off it? Didn't see any of those yet though :p
I'm thinking it'll be a slightly more magical (fey-like if you will!) version of a ranger. With fairy fire bowshots, prestidigitation for shenanigans and magical snowballs :D
(I didn't actually look at the Ranger ranger. Maybe I should have and it had a better fit ... but historically ways martial classes trade into any bit of magic involves kneecapping and I don't wanna wait :p)
So I'm thinking the magical side will be covered by my herbalist master - or perhaps a witch further up the hierarchy? Plus general fey culture training in being sneaky, annoying and prick bullying mortals with bows.
It was delightful to see that skills seemed free/not tied to a class. I wanted acrobatics + stealthy for shenanigans, diplomacy to be somewhat helpful and then I was left with one pick to build on the actually helpful side of the herbalism. In the end I slotted medicine there; hoping mundane healing is a bit shinier in pf2 then pf1 :p But nature/survival were the contenders. Would probably have depended on party composition tbh, they're all pretty close.
Anyhow rambling aside! I envision the Root Magic evolving into real magic. Not quite as focused on it to the exclusion of other things like a witch or shaman, but that'll still be what "I" grew up doing :)
Oh and a bow would be the weapon of choice.
You've almost got it perfect @Lessah, buuuut... your key ability score is your only boost this stage of character creation. Basically you've been working on your starlit span skillz so much you haven't had time for anything else. So the key ability modifier, which should be dex for your dex heavy build, is also your boost. No str boost right now.
It's actually quite a neat trick in the class stage you're expected to get better at the thing the class does best. For a lot of martials like the magus it's either strength or dex. It's a bit of a guardrail and a guideline to what you should be focusing on with your ability scores that Pathfinder 1 did not have.
Medicine is a very strong pick and it is strongly recommended that one character in a group pick up the medicine skill. It works well with the background of course.
Skill progression is indeed pretty different from 3.x. I think I prefer the unified progression method and the light touch on how they're tied to class compared to the older proficency method. Basically any class can be the party medic, though they'd be better at if they were at least a bit wise.
Oh I see I see. My key ability choice is what gives the stat boost, they're not two choices. Reasonable :)
I'll take a peek at medicine and see!
The skill progression idea is very neat.
That's right @Karma you're a neophyte adventurer now!
At this point your character has either left their old vocation behind or delved into mastering its intricacies. Either way they are well on the way to exceeding most of their peers and becoming the exceptional individuals that define a first level adventurer in Pathfinder Second Edition. Your character accomplishes this by gaining the benefits defined by the class they have either chosen, or has been chosen for them by circumstance.
You've heavily invested in Charisma... The classes that make the most use of this are
Bard, Oracle, Scoundrel Rogues, Sorcerers, Summoners,
Are any of these perhaps the classes you are thinking about? That flash of electricity, wind, fire... Could that mean some sort of sorcerous inherent magic bubbling up?
Outwit Ranger is another possibility. Let me know what you're thinking about for your Nomad.
God Jul goes perfectly here! Happy times to you as well :)
Merry Christmas to all who celebrate and Happy Holidays to all.
I'm pretty sure I'll be able to catch up a bit on the next few days.
Alright, Oracle and Sorcerers!
This requires getting into spellcasting. So spellcasting has been simplified in 2e in that there isn't one spell list per class, there are now four traditions. There are a lot of spells that overlap between the 'lists' but they all have a flavour. They are:
Arcane: Wizard is the iconic arcane caster and Lessah's sprite is one too as a Magus. All round list, very weak on healing though. Flavor: Cramming with a spellbook really does pay off.
Divine: Cleric the most iconic. Heals buffs, some debuffs, great situational alignment damage. Flavor: Heaven, Hell, or something in between likes you.
Primal: New tradition so Druids aren't weird divine casters anymore. Great elemental blasting, crowd control, some buffs and debuffs, some healing. Flavor: The power of nature, they fey, the elemental plans courses through you.
Occult: The weird stuff is now core, and Bards get to be full casters now with this being their playground. Debuffs, crowd control, mental focused damage, telekinesis, some pretty weak healing. Flavor: Mess around with forbidden knowledge and find out.
So that's the spell 'slots'. But in addition to that we have 'Focus Spells'. This is where 2e gets its own complexity. These are *basically* Per encounter powers. You usually get one 'Focus Point' that you can use to cast the spell and then have to recharge in some fashion for 10 minutes to get it back. These are what provide a lot of uniqueness considering there's no custom spell lists.
I'd say the cantrips looked much juicier now as well. Very neat.
I bet - with system mastery or splatbooks - that getting your class to draw from the "wrong" list is possible. (Think I even saw occult sorcerers mentioned?)
Heightened spells also seems to be something more built-in to the system? Kinda like how some psychic spells in 1e worked.
Edit: summon Animals is, for example, just one spell that seems to be castable at all levels.
Or perhaps that was just how they decided to present it to save space :p
Oracles are an advanced class and are cha based spontaneous divine casters. But something out there only kind of likes you, mostly you're linked to divine magic in a way that isn't fully approved by the powers that be. So you can cast divine spells just fine.
But this is basically too much focus the class. You get 2 focus points right off the bat and you pick a mystery that gets you two 'revelation' spells to use them with. Each time you do it though the curse associated with the mystery kicks into play. There are four stages to the curse and initially you only have the ability to go to minor and moderate versions of the curse. It takes 8 hours of rest to remove the curse below moderate. Recharging a focus point in 10 minutes can get it back to minor.
The list of mysteries are. Ancestors, Battle, Bones, Cosmos, Flames, Life, Lore, Tempest.
Sorcerers, oddly enough are ALSO cha based spontaneous divine casters, or primal casters, or occult caters, or arcane casters.
One of the mind blowing innovations in 2e was when they decided the sorceror, instead of being an off-wizard, would have their bloodline determine their spellcasting tradition, so if you got angelic blood then you're a divine caster, if you've got dragon blood, you've got arcane casting, fey is primal, hag gets you occult etc.
It was and still is pretty damn awesome, however some of the sheen has come off since in the two years since other classes can pull off the same trick (witches and summoners!).
The bloodlines are what still keep sorcerers unique, they get a bunch of things from the bloodline like oracles get with mysteries including a much more standard focus spell that you can use basically once everytime you get 10 minutes of rest.
The bloodlines are:
Aberrant, Angelic, Demonic, Diabolic, Draconic, Elemental,Fey,Genie,Hag,Imperial,Nymph,Phoenix,Psychopomp,Shadow,Undead,Wyr mBlessed.
There's a bunch of innovations in spellcasting Lessah, for example now there's 10 levels of spells with the really overpowered 9th level spells migrating there. Heightening is built in to a lot of them as you've already seen, some spells have variable action casting so for example the more actions you spend casting Magic Missile, the more Missiles shoot out...
It's still Vancian prepared though and spontaneous casters get hit with some weird restrictions to keep them balanced against Vancian. Really, I think Vancian needs to be retired!
The Focus Point spell mechanic is how they're also able to inject some spellcasting into Rangers and Champions (Paladins) without needing them to interact with the whole spellcasting system.
You can even multiclass though that's it's own entire topic!
Happy holidays all! I hope you're having a pleasant time :)
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I think I'll go for oracle of flames. I think it'll be a good fit for the background so far.
Oracle
boost: CHA
+9hp (8+con bonus)
focus points: 2
Proficiency
T in perception
T in fort, E in ref (mystery), E in will
T in religion, acrobatics + 3 more (3+ int mod): diplomacy, intimidation, medicine
T in simple and unarmed weapons
T in light armour and unarmoured defence
T in divine atk/dc
Spells
Cantrips: Produce flame (mystery), daze, detect magic, guidance, shield, stabilize
1st: Heal, Magic weapon
Focus: incendiary aura, fire ray
Curse: Curse of Engulfing Flames
I think we also get free ability boosts on 1st level, but is that on the next stage?
Yup @Karma, you're very close to being a full LEVEL ONE Character but not quite yet.
I'll try and get up a scene for you soon. Do you think it makes sense for it to be the first time you're forced to tap into your powers?
Happy new year!
Happy New Year! I'll try and get some posts up by tomorrow. Also realized first time in a while that we didn't have an in game visit from Santa!
Oh that's true!
Asta, I think you're heading down the barbarian route? Did I read the signs wrong?
@Lessah! So you're at stage 6 of the system, which is just finishing details on the system.
The first part is that you get FOUR MORE ABILITY BOOSTS, just like the other stages/steps you can't put a boost into the same attribute twice, but it's here that you'll most probably get your Dex up to 18, Int up to 16 and two more of your choice.
The second is you get 15 gp to spend on equipment, you can take a look at the adventurer's pack for standard gear, and some of the class kits that are combinations of useful items... nothing specific to the magus though... Other than that of course you should think of a ranged and melee weapon, some armour, maybe a minor healing potion and/or lesser alchemist fire.
Finally finish off the character sheet and make sure the various bits and bobs are up to date with the final four stat boosts. They are:
Section How to fill out
Perception
Your character’s Perception modifier measures how alert they are. This modifier is equal to their proficiency bonus in Perception plus their Wisdom modifier.
Saving Throws
For each kind of saving throw, add your character’s Fortitude, Reflex, or Will proficiency bonus (as appropriate) plus the ability modifier associated with that kind of saving throw. For Fortitude saving throws, use your character’s Constitution modifier. For Reflex saving throws, use your character’s Dexterity modifier. For Will saving throws, use your character’s Wisdom modifier. Then add in any bonuses or penalties from abilities, feats, or items that always apply.
Melee and Ranged Strikes
Next to where you’ve written your character’s melee and ranged weapons, calculate the modifier to Strike with each weapon and how much damage that Strike deals. The modifier for a Strike is equal to your character’s proficiency bonus with the weapon plus an ability modifier (usually Strength for melee Strikes and Dexterity for ranged Strikes). You also add any item bonus from the weapon and any other permanent bonuses or penalties. You also need to calculate how much damage each weapon’s Strike deals. Melee weapons usually add your character’s Strength modifier to damage rolls, while ranged weapons might add some or all of your character’s Strength modifier, depending on the weapon’s traits
Skills
On the character sheet next to the skill name, there should be an abbreviation that reminds you of the ability score tied to that skill. For each skill in which your character is trained, add your proficiency bonus for that skill (typically +3 for a 1st-level character) to the indicated ability’s modifier, as well as any other applicable bonuses and penalties, to determine the total modifier for that skill. For skills your character is untrained in, use the same method, but your proficiency bonus is +0.
Class DC
A class DC sets the difficulty for certain abilities granted by your character’s class. This DC equals 10 plus their proficiency bonus for their class DC (+3 for most 1st-level characters) plus the modifier for
the class’s key ability score.
Spell DC and Spell Attack Rolls
Spell DC works very similarly to Class DC while Spell Attack Rolls work very similarly to attack rolls. The main difference is the ability score used is the one used for casting spells. This is typically one of Cha, Int, or Wis.
Armor Class (AC)
Your character’s Armor Class represents how difficult they are to hit in combat. To calculate your AC, add 10 plus your character’s Dexterity modifier (up to their armor’s Dexterity modifier cap), plus their proficiency bonus with their armor, plus their armor’s item bonus to AC and any other permanent bonuses and penalties.
@Karma. Haven't forgotten you! Will really try and get something up soon for the start of your adventuring career as an Oracle.
OK, so picking a class is Asta's next stage, correct? She's a guard, strong, hale, and a bit scary.
Seems like barbarian or fighter make the most sense. GM, what are your thoughts on these classes?
Also, I see there's a new (to me and not in PF1 at least) "Inventor" class! I love new classes. I assume this is PF's version of the artificer then?
Fighters are the standard that every other martial is judged by, basically there's no more BAB, everything is proficiency so... that allowed Paizo to get away from fighter being the boring full Bab martial with not much else to being the ONLY class (other than gunslingers in a limited way) to be EXPERT in proficiency with their preferred weapon group right at level 1 and get to LEGENDARY in that weapon group.
The ALL CAPS are kinda worth it as that means fighters are +2 ahead of all other martials in attack rolls and that matters a lot because of the tight math combined with the crit system which means that fighters not only hit more than anyone else but also CRIT more than anyone else. Their class feats are all kinda built around being the best trained weapon masters in the worllld. The identity really does come from that and since weapon traits in pathfinder 2 really work to make every weapon feel different.. the weapon you choose will be a lot about how the character interacts with the world in combat. They get Attacks of Opportunity for free right out of the gate too which is actually pretty restricted in pathfinder 2.
What the other martials get in compensation for not having the absurd attack bonus of the fighter is what defines them more. Champions are tanks, Monks are mobile etc. What Barbarians get is, from what I can tell, they are the only class with additional DAMAGE baked in from Raging.
They also have subclasses in the form of their instincts, these instincts are
animal where you pick an animal and that animal type gives your rage special thematic properties (Frog Animal Barbarians get a tongue attack lol),
dragon is like that for dragons,
fury is the generic one that gets you an extra feat,
giant lets you use oversized weapons easier,
spirit is like a ghost killer,
supersitition is the mage killer that's hard to use as you can't benefit from magic.
Barbarians have 'anathema' which is basically flavourful restrictions on your behaviour that if you violate might result in you losing your rage abilities.
Basically Barbarians do the most damage and have the most health due to rage but also take the most since their AC is lower due to rage.
The weapon choice matters for them too just like Fighters. Basically there are a few different 'fighting styles' in pathfinder 2.
Two Handed weapons are where you get the most damage
Sword and Board gets you a lot of good extra defense
Free Hand fighters get to do swashbuckly maneuvers with their free hand.
Two Weapon/Finesse fighters get to be better at multiple attacks with finesse weapons and hit with dex at the expense of damage.
Unarmed don't need weapons, though it takes a little bit of work to get good at them (like being a monk).
Verrrry interesting. I think she's probably more a fighter. Sword and board style I'd think. Maybe fury barb since she doesn't have much connection to the supernatural or a long tongue!
I do like the anathema idea though.
I haven't looked to closely at Champion. May have to explore that more as well.
Options options options :D
I filled in most of the things as I went, using what I knew at the time, so I shall sit down and make sure its correct. Probably this weekend :)
Fury Barb with sword and board does work pretty well I think. But just because Asta has some anger issues doesn't mean she's a barb, not all character quirks need to be class features.
Anathema is actually a really neat compromise to loosen the alignment restrictions on classes while still keeping targeted and easier to conform to behavior expectations. Barbs are no longer alignment restricted to being chaotic buut... your rage still has certain demands (other than Fury).
Really helps with champions and clerics too. Each deity has their own set of targeted anathema. It's pretty *chefs kiss*. Champions are a clever compromise to allowing different Paladian alignments. Paladins are still LG, but you could be a Redeemer or Liberator instead and get your NG or CG paladin behaviour on.
As for Inventor... don't know much about it to be honest it's the first brand new class for second edition. Really it feels a bit more like the Mechanic from Starfinder. The subclass option there is either you've made a real fancy set of armor, a construct companion buddy, or a real fancy morphing weapon. Just add a lot of goofy steampunk style unstability to the mix as well when you push your contraption too far. There's a feat chain to become more of a MacGuyer type Gadgeteer, but that's not a base assumption of the class.
OK, so I decided against barb. I looked at champion thinking a champion of Abadar might be interesting, only to discover there's no LN option? Bummer.
So I'm going fighter.
Key ability: +2 to Str brings Asta's Str to a 16.
HP: +10 for a total of 19 (10 + 8 human + 1 con mod)
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Diplomacy, Society (plus legal lore and intimidation from her background).
Feats/class features: Attack of opportunity, Shield block, Fighter feat TBD
For the fighter feat, I'm leaning towards one of exacting strike, power attack, or reactive shield.
Do I understand the following correctly? Exacting strike lets me make a more accurate second attack if I miss a first attack. Power attack allows me to make more damage at the expense of accuracy. Reactive shield allows me to raise the shield as a reaction out of turn instead of using an action on my turn to do so?
You got the feats almost perfect. Power Attack actually allows you to do more damage (extra weapon die) at the expense of an action. The bigger your weapon's damage die the better it is (there's no two die weapons, they all go from 1d4 to 1d12).
Alllso this is where your ancestry natural ambition feat kicks in. You get two class feats instead of just one!
The core rule book of pathfinder 2 had the three good champions, the advanced player's guide brought in the 3 evil ones and who knows when the neutral ones will pop up.
Oooh, OK. I see Asta as more a sword n' board type so I'm leaning towards exacting strike and reactive shield.
I have now successfully filled in the crunchy bits :)
Edit: Theoretically, this link should contain a commentate version of the pdf. If it cooperates.
I'd appreciate a quick glance to see that things look vaguely correct :D