Alfonso, Trig, I'm still working on your rumors.
Alfonso, we'll give you access to UM content contingent on approval, as I do not own it and have not read it in full.
Antagonize seems perfectly in keeping with your character, and we should all look forward to seeing you put it to good use.
I assume you mean the Blood Money spell? If it's actually a feat, just slide me a link, will you? -It should be fine so long as you show me your accounting for each of your uses of it.
I thought I mentioned this, but leadership is available. I expect you all to work with me on the details if you should take it.
Yup blood money the spell. It won't matter until much later but magic jar + blood money = free wishes etc but we will burn that bridge when we come to it.
Antagonize is not a feat Alfonso will be taking, more one he needs to defend against. OOoooo looks like they toned down the feat. It used to be a caster killer as it required the victim to make a melee attack vs. the user. Give this to an come-and-get-me barbarian and it is goodnight wizard.
Summon monster 8 (hezrou demon, has 27 str and hands) Magic jar demon. Cast blood money doing 1+25 str damage have 12500 blood gp to play with.
Wish would take 50 str. So less free more half price.
eh it's cheese and more a wizard trick than a sorcerer gambit. Alfonso will have better things to do.
Blood money and Masterwork transformation on the other hand tosses WBL out the window.
but it is still cheese.
Common assault before witnesses, and failure to have a wild animal under proper restraint.
It is a departure from character but Alfoso will not pursue the matter as the Pathfinder rules are woefully inadequate on the subject of criminal law.
Speaking of departures, Alfonso has no interest in crawling through a swamp to kill people who have not hurt him. If this proposes a plot difficulty simply having Koya or another person he respects ask him to go as a favor will solve the issue.
Note: People he respects no longer includes Shalewen or Shalelu
I like how snarky Alfonso is. And I figured, after that commentary, that Koya would need to be involved. That should be interesting. So would an attempted lawsuit. He insulted adventurers and their work thus insulted both Ameiko and Shalelu. Everyone in the group respects or, in one case, loves one of them. I expect their reactions will be similar.
AH but they are not adventures any more. They got better!
Adventuring is like a social disease or something. :7)
Oh and not a lawsuit but rather criminal charges. Assaulting a citizen in public and all. Though it does depend on how legally organized Sandpoint is. Are offences still mainly seen as a matter between individuals and families or has the state/crown/urbis begun to supplant/support the injured party. Are we in a time or wergeld or a time of crown courts. Or I suppose it could be a case of mother & father officials in which case Alfonso, and all sensible folks, run from the law at all speed!
I am interested in how the law sees your wolf's actions. Where responsibility devolves ect.
Ha. A disease. Interesting viewpoint.
From what I know, small cases will likely be handled within the town by the mayor or guard captain while large ones will require the perpetrator to be sent to Magnimar. That's a lot to consider so well done.
Ha. A disease. Interesting viewpoint.
From what I know, small cases will likely be handled within the town by the mayor or guard captain while large ones will require the perpetrator to be sent to Magnimar. That's a lot to consider so well done.
oh dear. That is rule by one person. Massive opportunities for pressure and corruption. Pity I don't know Charm Person. ;7)
That's borderline LE. Careful there. Too much demon in the blood?
Bedroll........ 5 lbs .. 0.1 gp
MessKit........ 1 lbs .. 0.2 gp
Flint and steel ..... .. 1 gp
Torch.......... 1 lbs .. 0.01 gp
Soap........... 0.5lbs . 0.25 gp
Trail rations.. 5 lbs .. 2.5 gp
Waterskin...... 4 lbs .. 1 gp
Silk rope,50ft. 5 lbs .. 10 gp
Here is what Laurentii got, anything should be added?
Cost 16.6 gp. Deducted from his funds.
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Players, It is not in my nature to railroad you into an adventure path you seem to be disinterested in playing.
If we are more interested in exploring a dire threat to Sandpoint, perhaps one that allows your characters no choice but to set aside their differences, a different first chapter can be arranged.
"I'm just playing the character" is a poor excuse. It seems to be what both of you are saying.
Together, we share in the cooperative atmosphere of the paizo boards. That is the great thing about this space. We support each other, and join together.
We collaborate.
I would like to see you both working together this week. In both this thread, and in gameplay.
The guide says Koya usually travelled with caravans as a healer with her mother and adopted son Sandru. This could be the motivation for Alfonso to help. The goblins are threatening caravans in the area which means his adoptive mother might eventually be a target or even harmed.
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First I apologize. I was criminally unclear in my "not interested" post.
What I actually meant to say was that Alfonso is not motivated by a bounty on goblins.
He is however motivated by personal relationships. If he is asked then he will very reluctantly take part.
He does not see the goblins as a threat to Sandpoint. And apparently neither does Sandpoint as all they have apparently done is to offer a small bounty. No mobilization for war, no desperate messages to Magimar, Sandpoint is not under siege. They are using fireworks, they live in a swamp. Damp and gunpowder means this is a problem only until the next good rainstorm. Yes you can keep powder dry if you are careful and organized. Goblins are neither, from Alfonso's viewpoint, this is a self-correcting problem. Alfonso will however reluctantly take part if asked. At that point he is not taking part in an ill-conceived punitive expedition but doing a favor for the person who asked.
From what Alfonso can see there have been a couple (few? only one?) attacks on caravans in the area by goblins using what appear to be fireworks. Not cannons or magic super weapons, fireworks. In response Sandpoint sent in a punitive expedition to kill them all. (Minor assumption here, the first group may have not been so clearly motivated to kill goblins as we are expected to be, they may not have been offered cash for body-parts.) The first expedition having failed Sandpoint chooses to do the same thing again hoping for different results.... Alfonso is skeptical, perhaps it might be healthier to wait and join the next expedition, or the one after that.
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My personal feelings follow.
I am really uncomfortable with this start to the AP. This is a clear and simple appeal to greed and love of violence. Spiked with a shot good ole' fashioned racism. This exact form of bounty is something governments did in real life to wipe out undesirable populations.
The players are asked, not to solve a problem, not to find out why attacks are happening, we are not even asked to stop the attacks on the caravans. The players are specifically asked to hunt and murder thinking members of a player available race.
Without any investigation or proof being offered we are expected to assume the local goblin tribe is behind the attacks. Again Sandpoint does not care why the goblins are attacking or how they came to get presumably rare and expensive weapons, all the town wants is dead mutilated goblins.
Without any investigation or proof being offered we are expected to assume the entire goblin race is deserving of execution without trial or legal recourse. The bounty letter does not restrict payment by tribe, or age, or anything else. All that matters is species.
We are expected not to care that the goblins we are hunting, killing, and mutilating may have had nothing to do with any attacks. All that matters to the Mayor and Sheriff judging from the limited information provided is that they are goblins.
This is foul.
This is collective punishment.
This is not fun.
Take a look at how Burnt Offerings dealt with the same set up, Sandpoint threatened by goblins. Instead of hearing about a problem and being told to go kill goblins because reasons. The players help repel the attack on the town. They quickly they realize that something bigger is going on and there is a chain of clues leading the players to take the fight to the goblins. At no point are the players expected to kill goblins simply because they are goblins.
The story moves from active street by street defense of the town to a desperate foray into goblin territory to stop a larger problem.
I do not doubt that this adventure will move on to larger problems but right now the motivation being offered is "kill the greenies because they are annoying ."
Am I missing something? This AP looks like it could be a great deal of fun and you are all excellent folks to game with. I hope we can find a way through this.
You know, someone once pointed out there is a certain amount of suspension of disbelief in the beginning of most games to get the party together. "The fates have brought you all to the same tavern at the same time and someone happens to walk in and offer you a quest. Righteous individuals that you are, you all agree to work together to stop whatever calamity has befallen the realm."
Right. That's believable. Its refreshing to see someone point out the stupidity.
On the other hand. Its not completely stupid to think the town of Sandpoint would be disinclined to allow such creatures to exist anywhere near them. Especially after the events of Burnt Offerings. And leaving it to adventurers is probably equally believable seeing what they did to the goblins and the Runelord that started things.
Your personal feelings would be incredibly forward thinking in such a community.
Also, you are talking about creatures, not inherently evil, but as close as one can be without being absolute like the creatures from which Alfonso draws his power. Goblins are evil and, given time, can become not only a nuisance, but a real threat as they were in Burnt Offerings. They had guidance then, yes, but numbers can overcome any obstacle. Shalelu's job is usually to keep an eye on such threats and warn the appropriate people when they become a threat. She is most likely the one that told the mayor who then issued the order. Sandpoint doesn't have, and never has had, the appropriate fighting force to accomplish the task. Magnimar sends the greenest guards they can when asking for assistance.
Perspective is also a factor. Some will view this as a chance to kill with the law on your side and a good way to get money. Likely the reason the other three left. Others view it as defending their home from a threat to its existence. Sandpoint has no tolerance of goblins. Shalewen's thinking is of the latter. If Sandpoint is threatened she will move to defend it, regardless of a bounty. And she will conduct herself with honor and courage.
Except in the case of Alfonso ;)
My character doesn't know of any other rumors so this is the one she will pursue. It is also tangent with her own skills.
Maybe one of the others can mention these points because Shalewen if off to get supplies with the poorly stocked Laurentii. The party has already decided on a course of action. Unfortunate as it may be that means either the DM has to intervene to provide appropriate motivation or you do. And considering his previous post, I find that unlikely.
I can't think of anything yet off the top of head but I will try to find some way to bring you into it if no one else does. Nothing worse than loosing a character at the start for whatever reason.
Your personal feelings would be incredibly forward thinking in such a community.
Not so much for someone considered by his family, and by himself, as at least half monster. Add coming from a culture that makes extensive use of slaves and has a caste of nearly un-persons (tieflings) and it is very easy for Alfonso to see his name on the bounty board. Compassion as self-interest really.
The whole racist and scalping thing really turns my stomach though. I mean there are in cannon good goblins. I wonder how a goblin paladin would deal with this.
Your personal feelings would be incredibly forward thinking in such a community.Not so much for someone considered by his family, and by himself, as at least half monster. Add coming from a culture that makes extensive use of slaves and has a caste of nearly un-persons (tieflings) and it is very easy for Alfonso to see his name on the bounty board. Compassion as self-interest really.
The whole racist and scalping thing really turns my stomach though. I mean there are in cannon good goblins. I wonder how a goblin paladin would deal with this.
Magnimar, you are correct. Sandpoint, I highly doubt it.
Same way a human paladin would slay human bandits. Willingly and from the front.
but the bounty is not on goblin bandits. It is on ALL goblins.
"By the Order of the Sheriff the town of Sandpoint shall remit 10 gold pieces from the city treasury for each freshly taken goblin ear upon delivery to the town hall.
-An additional reward of 300 gold will be issued to anyone presenting the head of tribe Licktoad's chieftain, one 'Chief Gutwad'"
A bandit is something one does, you pays your money you takes your chances. Fair is fair. This is killing someone for what they are.
Bit of a difference, at least to me.
Fair enough. That wording makes it significantly abuse-able. Any goblin ear would do even if it wasn't from one of the accused goblins. But what is the most cliché thing a bandit can do? Attack a caravan. These goblins are being very bandity.
Idea: Maybe if you talk to the mayor or her secretary again she will you that if it concerns you so then you should go and prevent mis-behavior. If we succeed the bounty is likely to come down anyway.
...These goblins are being very bandity.
How do you know?
We know there was at least one attack by what appeared to be goblins.1.What evidence confirms that the attack took place and that goblins were responsible?
2.If the attack is/was confirmed and it is/was proven that goblins were the aggressors what evidence links the attack to the Licktoads?
3.If such evidence exists how does it confirm that all the Licktoad goblins were involved in the attack or that the attack was ordered by Gutwad?
Finally there is the appropriate response issue. The goblin attacks have yet to kill anyone.
..."Sheriff Belor thinks there may be deaths on the road soon if we stand idly by."
(bolding mine)
Hunting and killing thinking beings, even if evilly aligned, is a bit over the top as a first response.
I'll grant 1 as background info but 2 & 3 need to be nailed down if they want me to volunteer. Even then I wopuld need to be convinced that killing is the proper response.
The people of this area know what a goblin looks like so I think they can accurately identify one. But it doesn't matter if this is a hoax, goblins, bandits or something else. Something attacked a caravan. Someone needs to investigate. And for the sake of moving the campaign along that needs to be us.
If we needed damning proof and just cause for all actions every adventurer ever would be in jail or wouldn't leave the bed. And all I am hearing is more reasons for Alfonso to go and investigate/diplomacy the crap out of the situation. If you or he so vehemently believe this is wrong then you need to come along. To either satisfy your morals or toss it in the face of the powers that be in Sandpoint and us that you were right and they were wrong.
"I'm just playing the character" is a poor excuse.
@ Ouisky: I personally do not mind going on the goblin quest. Not that I enjoy slaying goblins, but rather because I have already played that part of the AP and I know that genocide is not the only solution.
If you were to change the first part, I would not mind either.
However, if I was forced to vote, I would pick the original version to avoid increasing your workload.
@ Shalewen and Alfonso: Although I haven't read Alfonso's background or personality (I like surprises), I think that his dislike for a goblin genocide is an interesting reason for him to join.
Also, I agree that going on the adventure simply to get money from goblin slaying is pretty awfull (so does Laurentii). Moreover, Alfonso would not be the only one in the group looking for a peaceful solution, as I have tried to hint in my posts, Laurentii is not really interested in slaying goblins, but rather on making sure that no one comes to harm (Shalewen first). He will definitely not collect ears, and only kill in self defense.
Note: all what follows should be read as having a neutral tone and not as a critic on any arguments that have been made so far. I am simply trying to provide some type of reasoning that might justify the characters actions: As for the issue about whether Gutwad/the licktoads are the source of the trouble... I have to agree with Alfonso that it is not clear (our characters do not own all the necessary clues). But do they need to? Is it so awful to be the pawns of Sandpoint's mayor and Sheriff... they are supposed to be pretty decent people! One could also see that the previous mercenaries might not be dead and instead are in need of help. Finally, even though no one has died from the goblin attacks, does not mean that no one was injured.
@ Alfonso: Interestingly, in the previous game I was in, there was a goblin paladin who played extremely well his character. He put his life in danger many times to save other goblins (our group had adopted the Licktoads by the time the game died!).
However, if I was forced to vote, I would pick the original version to avoid increasing your workload.@ Shalewen and Alfonso: Although I haven't read Alfonso's background or personality (I like surprises), I think that his dislike for a goblin genocide is an interesting reason for him to join.
Also, I agree that going on the adventure simply to get money from goblin slaying is pretty awfull (so does Laurentii). Moreover, Alfonso would not be the only one in the group looking for a peaceful solution, as I have tried to hint in my posts, Laurentii is not really interested in slaying goblins, but rather on making sure that no one comes to harm (Shalewen first). He will definitely not collect ears, and only kill in self defense.
90% with you here. There is a tiny voice talking about not supporting the REALLY BAD IDEA even passively but I think I can think around it. I guess it depends of the overall group goal. But that might need to be hashed out in the play thread.
Note: all what follows should be read as having a neutral tone and not as a critic on any arguments that have been made so far. I am simply trying to provide some type of reasoning that might justify the characters actions: As for the issue about whether Gutwad/the licktoads are the source of the trouble... I have to agree with Alfonso that it is not clear (our characters do not own all the necessary clues). But do they need to? Is it so awful to be the pawns of Sandpoint's mayor and Sheriff... they are supposed to be pretty decent people! One could also see that the previous mercenaries might not be dead and instead are in need of help. Finally, even though no one has died from the goblin attacks, does not mean that no one was injured.
This is what really threw me about the bounty note. These are supposed to be good guys and they did this? Learning more about the long Goblin-Sandpoint conflict helped but this felt seriously wrong.
@ Alfonso: Interestingly, in the previous game I was in, there was a goblin paladin who played extremely well his character. He put his life in danger many times to save other goblins (our group had adopted the Licktoads by the time the game died!).
Nice and well played.
So I may be overreacting. You are not treating this as a hunt-kill mission and Alfonso is not...
Is anyone? It might annoy the mayor et al but if we are working to stop the attacks rather than being murderhobos this might work....
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Everybody, great points.
Thanks for helping me fill in a bigger picture of how you understand the AP.
Alfonso has a great point about not wanting to commit genocide. I'm glad we're having this discussion, and I hope we can make a richer experience for everyone by airing everything out. It would be against my nature to railroad alfonso's player into killing goblins, just to kill goblins in a swamp.
While not every goblin is Hug Hug from the mines of madness, they are sentient. The chief problem, as I understand it, is the goblin lifecycle.
O-Goblins produce more offspring, faster than any other race. Their lifespan is often short, which seems to lead most of them toward the worst kind of "living life to the fullest".
O-This naturally leads them into conflict, and encourages an attitude in surrounding communities of culling their numbers.
O-Are goblins a natural race or an unnatural one? Who knows?
Let me confirm a few things as absolutely true.
-it was goblins that attacked the caravans
-the goblins used tien style fireworks (possibly implying the involvement of an ethnically tien third party)
-while none have been mortally wounded, the progression and rapid escalation of the recent attacks is alarming the locals
-the goblin bounty used to be a permanent part of life in sandpoint. (Disgusting as that may be) it has merely been reinstated in light of these events. So, as long as the road appears threatened by greenskins, the bounty will likely be there.
Let me see what I can cook up, given the good feedback you guys have offered.
They found a necromancers last stand and insurance policy. The first team followed old stories about a necromancer lairing in what would become the swamp a dogs age ago. They found the burial chamber, one was possessed and killed the others. Pathfinders sent in the cleaners.
All that is left is a relatively easy to find looted burial chamber, and as the cleaner was a cleric of Pharasma, some very thoroughly smashed jars. Of course something will have likely moved in after the cleaners left.
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Oh sorry, thought you were crowdsourcing for ideas.
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Yeah, he was just being dramatic.
So where is Alfonso? What's he doing? What are his motivations now?
Likely working in the Rusty Dragon. He is not much good at decoding but they have lots of coffee and big tables he can scatter papers all over. That way he can at least look productive.
As far as motivation, barring further info from Koya Alfonso will happily use the group as unknowing bodyguards for a scouting trip into the Brinestump. Lot's of strange things in the coded message maybe being on the spot will help. [
Admittedly unlikely but is at least gets him in the game.
Ahoy there. What are we waiting for? Onward to adventure.
Ready here. Still have a question in to the boss but the answer can be ret-conned in.
Sorry guys, I was waiting to see whether Lou would introduce himself to the group, and tonight was my IRL game. Anyway, going to post now!
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ok all, got a little lost, who talked to the mayor, and where is everyone right now?
I never realized Lou did not "introduce" himself.
I think we need to all be sure we are on the same page, who already knows who. possibly more time was needed to get to know each other first.
I recommended that we look for some common connections but I got the feeling everyone was a loner and didn't know or ever associate with anyone else.
so in short lets take a step back so to speak and get grounds as to where everyone actually is right now.
and decide where to go from there.
I assume since Koya isn't around, Alfonso, and therefore Laurentii, are now following Shalewen who has made the executive decision to not burn daylight. And for the most part yes, Lou is about the only one Shalewen would have any previous "interaction" with. That still being minimal.
It got quite complicated here's how I see it:
Everyone in the inn.
Guard post sign.
Trig, Laurentii, Shalewen read the sign.
Shalewen leaves in a hurry but is stopped by Laurentii and Shalelu outside the inn.
Alfonso, Trig and Lou join Shalewen, Laurentii and Shalelu outside the inn.
Short discussion, Lou helpos Shalewen to get away from the group because she is shy.
Alfonso and Trig leave to see the mayor.
Unknown event, chilling in front of the inn?
Alfonso and Trig come back and inform the others.
Shalewen call Alfonso a coward.
Shalewen and Laurentii leave to buys Laurentii new stuff.
Alfonso tries to decipher something at the inn (there is no actual meeting with Koya since she is out of town).
Shalewen and Laurentii come back at the inn.
Everyone is sitting at the same table at the inn (implied by Ouisky).
Laurentii asks for the others to state their name and purpose.
Shalewen leaves abruptly, everyone (or not everyone?) follows her.
By the way, Laurentii will be following Shalewen until he realizes that she does not know where to go.
For ease and keeping the game moving I am assuming Alfonso had time somewhen to translate the missive?
If not then back to the lizard and the books.
Baiting Shalewen is fun and all but Koya gave our boy a job to do.
Shopping? What do mean shopping?
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Whoops.
I had it wrong in my chronology. After shopping, before gate guards.
Go ahead and roll again.
Yes it was a good roll. No, it wasn't for this scene.
I also apparently missed Alfonso's little paragraph where he mentioned joining the group to see the guards. Looks like the spoiler I posted is pretty unecessary. Sorry about that.
But I don't wannaaaaaaaaa. Shadow got a 29 in perception from a previous post and Shalewen has 25 for survival. Can I keep them please?
I mean to say previous rather than later in my last gameplay post anyway.
I am confused, Ouisky, are you saying that the group is still facing the guard or that it reached the site of the raid?
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As you are approaching your scene, Shadow realizes Shalewen has left his favorite doggie treat at home. The distraction from this missing chew toy causes him no end of anxiety.
He is unable to roll perception for this site. Fortunately, Shalewen rolled well on her survival roll for this bit.
The party is currently approaching where they think the caravan was attacked.
Laurentii is ready to move!
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Just a heads up, I will be going to Pittsburgh Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. to visit my Aunt. she has Cancer and we don't know how much longer she will be around. Doctors said she can no longer travel.
not sure on posting ability during that time.
I hope things go as well as they can go while you are there...