Exploring the Savage World of Keltica

Game Master ZenFox42

K'Don - what Alex said (thanks!).

I was allowing Intimidate rolls before, but then noticed that PC's can't use Persuasion against other PC's (as rolls), so it seems to make sense that the same would be true for Intimidate.

Arabella, from what I've been able to gather, apparently not every one of your gadgets has to work on the same principle, I thought they did.

I am leaving Monday for Cape Hatteras.

Seriously though dude, sounds like an awesome getaway. Have a great time!

I noticed something going back to when WindDancer was first posting. She mentioned pain from an injury to her wing or something. It later occurred to me that if Connor could heal with his psionics, he might be able to heal WindDancer. I would suggest Connor try this but (a) I'm not sure if Arabella would have been able to notice the injury to WindDancer and (b) maybe Connor already healed WindDancer so it's a moot point.

If WindDancer's injury is noticeable and ongoing, I'd expect someone would have noticed it by now. If this is the case, I'll put something in the gameplay section about making Connor the suggestion to try to heal WindDancer's injury.

I'd still like to pursue some things about what we might learn about WindDancer's level of intelligence. If Connor can convey instructions to WindDancer telepathically, it would be interesting to see if she can be taught simple language skills.

So, I think your saying there is no "roll" I can use to get what I want, which is to get people to do what I want through "intimidation". Is that fair to say?

Not other PC's, that's correct. Every player should be able to play their PC as they want to, not as some other player wants them to. Make sense?

Yeah, just like when we're playing 'round the table, your PC can try to badger -- or convince, or seduce, or whatever -- my character into doing what's desired but you don't get to just roll dice and force another PC to bend to your will. As has happened so many times before we roleplay it out and whatever happens, happens.

Arabella, the pain is a backstory artifact; it's a childhood fracture in one wing that never healed properly because she was alone in the wilderness when it happened. It only bothers her when a lot of pressure's put on it, like making a sharp turn or pulling out of a steep dive. Think about us old farts who can tell when it's going to rain because a joint hurts -- that sort of thing. There's nothing visible you could spot, though maybe you could pick up on the distress in her vocalizations when she reacts.

Technically, it is healed (just not properly knitted), so I don't know if a heal power ought to work on it. Plus (or, "on the other hand") it's just fluff.

As for abilities testing, we do have that long walk to the next settlement. :o)

How about Arabella gets to work with some scrap iron and puts together one of these contraptions for the trip west? :)

Link

K'Don, Alexander, and Marko could take turns peddling and Connor, WindDancer, and whoever is not peddling can ride in the three central seats.

Well that's... different.

BTW, for those of us used to the Ready melee action from PF, in SW you do not need to declare your action or its trigger if you choose to Hold. Or if you prefer : you can if you wish, but you can change your mind.

For future reference : in case anyone with Arcane Background is eyeing the Quickness power for when you get to Seasoned, it WILL be nerfed - I just haven't figured out exactly how yet. In case anyone plans way ahead with their builds...

For any trips, don't forget that the level of technology is pre-Civil war, so things like canned goods exist...

Unless someone buys 100 bullets or your Strength is a d4, I'd say ignore encumbrance for bullets.

Well... maybe one, briefly, under special circumstances. Terminal velocity for a dropped .30-06 bullet is about 200 MPH. Being conked on the noggin with that ought to at least get a baddie's attention. Somebody buy her a bag of lead balls to use for aerial bombardment!

(By the way, according to Wikipedia that's also the approximate terminal velocity for a Peregrine Falcon diving at prey. I think it's a safe assumption that a thin-bodied, scaled lizard is at least as aerodynamic as a thicker, feathered bird. If you imagine the kind of G-forces involved with pulling out of a dive like that, her old wing injury acting up makes a lot of sense.)

My apologies for being so late to reply - and since it's very late here, further apologies for waiting until tomorrow to actually type out a reply, too. Brain no work, I gots the tireds.

(If WindDancer wants a share, she can speak up :).

(No worries Uncle Alex, we all understand about "life"...)

...Mini-dragons gots POCKETS?!?!

Well, sure! Osts are marsupials, didn't you know? Look, here's one of their prehistoric ancestors:

Fossils of bizarre lizard-like, snail-eating marsupials have been discovered by UNSW palaeontologists in an ancient fossil field in the Riversleigh World Heritage area in Queensland. The fossils date back 10 to 17 million years ago.

Besides, you never heard of the Pocket Lizards? :o)

Tinderbox : a small container with flint, firesteel, and charcloth (fabric which has already been charred, giving it a low ignition temperature with slow burning).

The sparks from the flint and steel would ignite a very small fire as they fell onto the charcloth, the glow of which could in turn be used to ignite a wood splint, after which the cloth would be extinguished for further use.

By your time (tech level), a rotating metal wheel was used to consistently create more sparks, and the wood splint has been dipped in sulfur for better results.

Such a deal at a merely 10 SP!

Or, you could just grab WindDancer and squeeze real hard (hey, *all* dragons breathe fire, don't they?)!

Arabella, would you be willing to be the group treasure-recorder, special items notator, and SP tracker? Not to keep track of everybody's individual money, just group stuff. (Note to everyone else : the only reason I asked her is I suspect her player might already have a spreadsheet going :)

MONEY STUFF

Arabella (or anyone), please double-check me :

Roknarra paid you 30 SP for the job.
You found 7 GP = 70 SP in the gang leader's belt.
You got 525 SP for the weapons.
I get 625 total, but you mentioned 688. Did I forget something (wouldn't surprise me)?

All - assuming everyone's ok with the group paying for Arabella's and Alex's bullets (1 SP each, big deal), and adding 20 SP for the 2 tinderboxes to Arabella's last running total of 230 (which I have NOT checked), that's 250 in group expenditures to prep for travel.

That leaves 375 (or 438 if Arabella's tally is correct).

Also assuming that Connor gets a share (he is a minor under Alex's charge, but if people think he helped out during the fight...), that's split 5 ways, or 75 SP for everyone to spend (or not) how they please. Or 87.6 SP if Arabella's right.

If anyone (in character) objects to Connor getting a share, that would be 94 SP, or 109.5 SP if Arabella's correct.

Discussion?

(he is a minor under Alex's charge, but if people think he helped out during the fight...)

Let's be real here. I deserve a larger cut. I screamed and passed out - no one was more valuable during that fight than I was. :P

LOL

I'm okay with Connor getting a full cut. Equal pay for sidekicks.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Screaming and passing out is exemplary behavior among the nobility! ;) Full cut for sure.

Equal pay for sidekicks.

... low ignition temperature... dipped in sulfur... Or, you could just grab WindDancer and squeeze real hard...

She will begin the process of learning more about the land from K'Don, asking about the different creatures we might expect to encounter, particularly the dangerous ones.

Sounds like you're trying to improve your Knowledge/Area/Keltica. If when you get an Advancement (which will happen relatively soon), you can take a d4 in it and then when you run into a new creature you can roll, and I'll tell you how much you know about it.

(SW says nothing about how to know stuff about "monsters". Common Knowledge (a Smarts rolls) seems too general (and usually too high) for something like that, so I think I'll go with Knowledge/Area for that area.)

Or I'd be willing to consider a Smarts roll with a hefty penalty for knowing some very specific Common Knowledge.

Any opinions?

K'Don -- Yes, high numbers first. So you're up.

Common knowledge is probably the one thing that requires the most adjudication in SW. You don't want to abuse it. But at the same time if someone put a lot of points into their smarts trait. You don't want to ignore that.

But common knowledge should be just that. The things that someone would typically know.

-Posted with Wayfinder

I'm not sure how I got the higher total. Probably just a miskey on my calculator. Sorry.

As for Connor's share, Arabella would justify giving him a share via Alexander since Alexander has to support Connor and so deserves a bigger share to cover expenses for 2. She also senses that he is going to mature quickly now that we're going into the wilderness. Just a hunch.

Sounds like you're trying to improve your Knowledge/Area/Keltica. If when you get an Advancement (which will happen relatively soon), you can take a d4 in it and then when you run into a new creature you can roll, and I'll tell you how much you know about it.

I'm really just trying to get a feel for how extreme this world is with regard to wilderness creatures. Is it more like our world, with some fierce predators of the animal variety, maybe some poisonous creatures to be aware of, or is it more like Middle Earth, with giant spiders and barrow wights and territorial elves who'll imprison you for trespassing and dragons and werebears and giants and trolls and such (all things Bilbo and Frodo encountered in their adventures through the wilderness of Middle earth).

I'm not trying to see if Arabella knows this, although even in a relatively civilized place, I would assume she'd have heard stories about what awaits in the wilder parts of the world. She's asking K'Don, who, as a native of this continent and one who seems to have spent a good deal of time dealing with wilder parts of the world.

What are the biggest threats to travelers through this area?

Inches and movement and squares (oh my!)
Technically according to SW a 1" square is 6 feet. BUT character movement is listed in "inches" just so you can ignore the actual size.

Since the typical character's Pace is 6 (inches), you can move 6 squares (the same number of *squares* as a human's movement in PF) in a round.

So if people are more comfortable talking in terms of "squares", that's fine with me.

Remember that SW doesn't allow repeated Actions, so you can't "double-move" for free. However, you can move as a Free action and then Run as an Action (and if you do any other Actions while Running, then penalties start kicking in).

According to SW, running gets you an extra 1d6 squares (NON-exploding), which seems odd to me that you could spend a precious Action an incur penalties, only to move 1 extra square.
Let's try saying Running gives you your Pace (so that's how you get a double-move) and see what happens.

Ok, so the final tally is : everyone gets 75 SP after buying the group traveling supplies.

Arabella, I can only paint a broad picture, hope that will suffice.

Besides Orcs, Goblins and Ogres are the main intelligent humanoids on Keltica. They are tribal, and constantly feuding and trying to conquer each other.

As far as "animals" go, yes, much more like Middle Earth and the PF bestiary. Many many "fantastical" (to us players) creatures. There's creatures that aren't-dead-but-aren't-alive, there's creatures that look like they were born from some Wizard's nightmare, etc. etc.

Many animals can be found on all the continents (you've picked that up from talking with your science friends back in Trellak), but there are some unique to Keltica. Unfortunately, I can't begin to list all the specific kinds of creatures that are here.

But even many of the "normal" (to us players) animals (bears, dogs, cats, reptiles, birds, etc.) tend to be larger on this continent for some reason. And much more vicious.

I'm not sure what you mean by "biggest threats" - there's the Orc/Goblin/Ogre tribes, and any creature that's hungry. Short answer : you're not paranoid, everything *is* out to get you. :)

Inside joke: Dayum but it's dangerous around that particular stump!

I'm not happy about an innocent family dying. Given her stated actions and a standing unused Notice success, was there no chance given for WindDancer to spot this happening, allowing the group to arrive a little sooner?

If there's no chance then I'm going to say this is a stretch when she's riding on Connor's shoulder and post her action starting from there.

I am not sure what the terrain here is but if it is forested, the canopy of leaves cou,d have obscurred you view of the attack. Hows your hearing. You happen to have great hearing you may have heard something. Just sticking my nose in where it dont belong.

I cannot see to move K'Don on my table (too hard to explain) so fox please move me appropriately to combat

I open the map touch my charactr and the keyboard pops up and shrinks my map to about 1/2 inch sq. Cant move at that scale

Click on the icon near the top left that's a little magnifier glass with the "+" inside it (underneath the word "Insert" on my browser) and then click somewhere in the map.

Re: Running.

I would suggest that if a character wants to attempt a double move, you handle like other double actions and require an agility roll to pull it off. You could even gear the amount of extra movement to the success level of the result. For example, if you do not succeed then you don't get any extra movement or you just get one extra square. 1 success means you get an extra half movement (3 if your pace is 6). 1 or more raises means you get 2 full pace movements (12 if your pace is 6).

Proving many high school algebra students wrong when they claim a person will never need to use any of these math skills in real life, I used a proportion to estimate my movement. The distance from Arabella to the nearest wolf was 11.5 cm on my screen which represents about 10 inches in the SW system of distance reduced to the scale of normal miniatures. So that means if Arabella moves 6 inches, it would be about 7 cm on the screen which puts her next to Alexander.

This is cumbersome so I suggest we translate the movement into similar terms as Pathfinder/D&D and make the normal square represent a certain distance (5 or 6 feet) and treat moving on a diagonal as effectively 1.5 squares (so one diagonal equals one square, two diagonals equals 3 squares, etc.). Then a pace of 6 represents a normal move of six squares. I also suggest the GM gives distances in either normal feet or squares rather than inches.

Re: Map manipulation
There is another icon on the toolbar that is of a little arrow (5th from left on my view). Click that before trying to move an icon of a PC. If you've clicked on the magnify icon, it will magnify the map, but then you can't select your character for movement until you click on the arrow.

I played a Weird War 2 game where the GM decided to use war gaming minis without a grid. We moved using rulers. It worked well enough.

Personally I prefer using grids for simplicity sake. But both work fine. Although I suspect that grids will be easier to keep track of on PBP.

Oh, Weird War 2 is probably my favorite Savage Setting. It's WW2 with Occult monsters. The game I was in had us playing on the Russian front. We competed over who had the worst Russian accent.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Yeah did that. I am unable to move using my tablet

Regarding running :

Having the second move be an Action *is* how SW handles double-moves. You can get a double-move easily by using Running as your Action (with no penalty or check) if things require you to really boogie. But if you want a double-move AND do other things, that's when the -2 MAP (Multi-Action Penalty) or Agility rolls kick in. Running shouldn't need an Agility roll itself just to do it.

However, having said all that, there's a common house-rule that many SW GM's use that combines the Swim and Climb skills with Running and Jumping (not skills) into one "Athletics" skill. Then the extra distance you get for Running is based off of the Athletics roll total, much as you suggested (but a double-move is still a Free Move and an Action). I'm considering that, but want to try the system as-is for a while, and don't want to suddenly create a skill that no one has.

Oh, and I think I figured out why the amount of extra distance you get from Running is random - it's to keep chases from being deterministic : when the extra movement is random, the chaser has a chance of catching up with the chasee even if their Paces are different.

So putting all that together, I would suggest the following :
1. Go back to rolling your "Pace die" (if your Pace is 6 you roll a d6, etc.) when you use Running. No exploding, no Bennies. All of that is RAW.
2. But, the extra squares you get are 2+(the die roll), up to your Pace.
That way you at least get an extra 50% distance, and you get your full Pace 50% of the time (for d6's). A low roll means your foot slipped, or you had to zig-zag, etc. and didn't travel quite as far.

I don't understand why you had to measure distances on the screen and convert between cm and inches - using squares (and calling one square 1") seems straightforward enough, it's what I first suggested. And if we do that, it doesn't really matter how many feet in a square, as far as I can tell. Let's just stick with "squares".

And altho calling diagonal movement "1.5 squares" is more accurate, SW specifically does not worry about that, because if both sides (players and DM) are using it, things balance out (this is directly from one of the game developers). I'm good with that.

K'Don, can you still see and use the map on your home PC (or work PC, for that matter)?

If so, it's probably a glitch in the tablet software that can't be easily gotten around.

Using your firearm to startle animals

While it makes perfect sense realistically, what I'm concerned about is using a shot to scare away all animals/creatures/monsters EVERY time!

So I'm going to suggest a mechanism, and some drawbacks to it. Let's try it and see how it works, but I reserve the right to just (unrealistically) say that creatures aren't startled by gunshots.

New rule : if you're within Short range of a creature and fire a gun, it makes a Spirit roll at -1.
On a Success it continues doing what it was.
On a Failure it is Shaken (stops doing what it was).
If it rolls a 1 on its Spirit die, it attacks the shooter.

First drawback : since reloading takes so long, you've just used your one shot for the melee without Wounding anything (altho making several things Shaken might be a good trade-off).

Second drawback : this might also work on your mule, horses, etc. if they haven't been specifically trained around gunfire.

Third drawback : you've just alerted everyone within a mile or two of your presence, and that you're "rich" enough to own a gun.

Any thoughts/comments?

Frantic last-minute P.S. : or how about maybe
On any Raises, it attacks the shooter.
On a Success it continues doing what it was.
On a Failure it is Shaken (stops doing what it was).
If it rolls a 1 on its Spirit die, it runs away.

I kind of like this better, but just thought of it and haven't had much time to consider ramifications...

Arrrgggghhhh, I hate the 1-hour time limit on this board! :)

Clarification about movement, specifically "1.5 diagonals" :

"because if both sides (players and DM) are using it, things balance out"

should be

"because if both sides (players and DM) are counting diagonals as 1 square, things balance out"

Yeah did that. I am unable to move using my tablet

I don't understand why you had to measure distances on the screen and convert between cm and inches - using squares (and calling one square 1") seems straightforward enough, it's what I first suggested. And if we do that, it doesn't really matter how many feet in a square, as far as I can tell. Let's just stick with "squares".

I wasn't sure exactly how you were interpreting the squares, so I started with your statement that we were 10" from the wolves and worked from that. I also wasn't sure how to count the diagonals.

Without going into the details, using the system of each square is 1" and counting diagonals the same as horizontals would result in Arabella being more than 5" from the wolves (out of close range for her pistol). Operating as we would on a tabletop and using rulers, she would get closer to the wolves and would be in close range at the end of her move.

I'm not complaining or arguing for one system or the other, but it will make a difference which system we use in some situations. It sounds like we're using each square as 5 feet or 1 inch and not adjusting for diagonals. If that's not the case, let me know.

It's not going to make any difference to Arabella in this turn, but it will be important in determining range to targets if she shoots her pistol.

Let's say that all of SW's "inches" (like ranges) are squares, and not adjust for diagonals. I don't know as we have to say how many feet are in a square.

That's a nice idea putting all the game mechanics inside a Hide box, but when I go to edit, what's Shown becomes Hidden again, and I often need to see it as I type.

Hrmph, FeedDemon is refusing to update when there are new posts. I wonder what's wrong...

I like the second (P.S.) option for startling animals. I'll probably never remember how close Close range is, though. :P

Alex -

I'd originally assumed that your gun wasn't drawn as you were just walking down the road (they're heavy, so hard to carry in-hand for a long time).

I did mention that if you wanted to draw it as you ran you'd need an Agility roll, and when I didn't see one I figured you hadn't.

Bottom line, I never rolled to scare the wolves because I didn't think you'd fired your gun. Sorry for the miscommunication.

And, I didn't want to retcon *all* that at this point. But the good news is, your gun is still loaded and ready to fire.

So, if for this round you'd rather draw your gun than your rapier, and fire it over the wolves' heads, you can. And since there's no attack roll, there's no Agility roll needed.

And, for your pistol, Short range is one less than your Pace, so 5 squares. :)

ZenFox42 wrote:
That's a nice idea putting all the game mechanics inside a Hide box, but when I go to edit, what's Shown becomes Hidden again, and I often need to see it as I type.

By "edit" I presume you mean previewing and tweaking your post. Just FYI, you can safely click the spoiler to open it at that time; it won't disturb anything.

Yes, but *every* preview closes it again, and it gets tedious having to re-open it each time. I personally do a lot of previews, and SW's exploding dice requires even more.

All - more on startling animals

I've learned a new thing about SW - to make a "reaction" roll for a bunch of Extras, instead of rolling individually you can roll a single die with a Wild Die, which decides the fate of all of them.
Not sure how I feel about that yet regarding startling. Makes it even easier to scare them ALL off.

Something I've seen on the SW home board is to treat it like Intimidation, which means you can only do it to ONE creature, not all of them. I would say something like : treat your Shooting roll result *as if* it were Intimidation (so the higher the roll, the closer the bullet came to the creature, or something like that). Then the creature makes an opposed Spirit check as usual for Intimidation.

The nice thing about that mechanism (from the GM's POV) is that it can't be abused by scaring off the whole bunch of creatures at once. On the other hand, now there's a way for ANY PC with a gun to "intimidate" *intelligent* creatures without putting any points in the Intimidate skill!

On the third hand, it makes NO sense to me to say that you *have* to have the Intimidation skill in order to merely shoot a gun to startle some animals. I mean, really, I'd have to tell Alex it was a great idea, but he can't do it because he doesn't have Intimidation? Any idiot with a gun (not you of course, Alex :) should be able to fire a gun near some animals and startle them.

Still floundering around, any opinions/new ideas are welcome...