The caravan travels quietly along the road to Tevinter. All around are the tired faces of humans, and elves, forced out of thaig and village by darkspawn, numbering about 30, with some live stock. Each face you see is tired and hopeless. This is the 3rd day crossing the Anderfels.
I'll tell you guys when you get exp. You guys can do your own math.
Also, would you mind switching to a rogue ranger? It's more lore friendly and the party is missing one.
I'm not going to force you though. Just a suggestion. With all those skills, you could easily be a party face and skill monkey.
Well with the combat trick talent, you basically only lose only one feat over the fighter. And remember that I expanded their proficiencies a bit. Whip, all bows, handaxes, throwing axes. And yes it's ok to be noble born.
You forgot to change Vigor and rogues aren't proficient in long swords.
I think everything else is good though.
And please put a stat bar up. It just makes things easier.
Yes. And might I suggest taking acrobatics? It's going to be useful for you to keep at range.
Here is my template for darkspawn, if you are curious. Please comment on it.
Darkvison 60. Increased by 30 if base race has dark vision.
+2 Str +2 Con.
+1 Natural Armor
Hit Dice Resist Cold and Fire DR
1–4 5 —
5–10 10 5/good
11+ 15 10/good
SR HD+5
+4 against mind affecting spells
Taint: If the target is wounded and the darkspawn is using blood covered weapons or natural attacks, target must succeed a DC 10+1/2HD+CON fort save or become tainted. The disease has a onset of 1 day. At the first day, they get one more save. After that for everyday they still have the disease, they lose 1d3 to every mental stat. When one stat goes to zero, they become darspawn(afflicted) which means they only get the darkvision, the save bonuses, and the unyielding desire to kill the untainted and go join the horde.
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Here is my template for darkspawn, if you are curious. Please comment on it.
** spoiler omitted **
Not bad. A few comments/questions. I'm not saying your approach is wrong, I am interested in your reasoning.
The darkspawn are aberrations, yes?
I don't remember any holy or good weaponry in the game, perhaps damage reduction magic would suffice.
Should they have spell resistance?
The taint is nice. I take it uncurable, except for the grey warden approach. That might make it a little rough.
I would give then a natural attack especially the shrieks (spelling may be wrong). Claws or slam.
Orges should get more natural armor.
Hope this helps
i forgot to add in the natural attacks. I did mean for them to have them. Bites on hurlocks and genlocks. Bites and claws for shrieks. Slams, bite, and gore on ogre.
The taint can be cured by remove disease and remove curse casted in tandem.
Changed to magic dr, but it starts at 5, not 0.
Natural armor now increases by size category.
SR removed.
Damage reduction five is rather a lot to give any cr 1-3 monster.
It will make Henry very close to unable to hurt them, unless he keeps critting like that, for at least a few levels, untill he gets magic weaponry. It will probably also turn largely irrelevant at a bit higher levels, when we (presumably) do manage to procure some magic stuff.
That said, it is also probably right about fair for CR+1.
How many refugees were there on the caravan?
About 30.
I always felt the darkspawn were pushovers in DA, so here they are truly monsters of nightmare.
It may feel like I am trying to kill you guys, but I swear there is a method to my madness.
Are we waiting for blade or should we just go ahead?
He has posted now, so go ahead. As long as you don't post more than once around, I can sort it all out later, so fire at will.
You passed your perception, so you were not flat footed.
The dog has 2 hit dice, by my reckoning (barring the vigorious feat) you should only be 6 points into its wounds. The companion is one mean mother; the ranger is among the more powerful archetypes by virtue of that alone.
As an aside, I can't seem to roll higher than 5 xD
Yep, they really seem out to get you. My sympathies.
Then again, the odds really aren't good in the first place. We are much worse off than I first thought.
Con doesnt apply to vigor, just dice, favored class and vigorous. You can still get the vigor to 20 if you apply both
Yes. But thats a housrule I made as to not make those spells, powers, and items useless. Normally in this system, they wouldn't. I did it bexause it didn't make sense for temporary increases to increase the damage your body could take, but it does to increase ones stamina.
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I have read carefully the wounds and vigor spoiler on the recruitment page. It doesn't say con bonus doesn't apply to vigor. It doesn't say it does to, but as con items apply I would have thought it was a logical step.
Can we clarify that? The only things that add to vigor are favored class bonus, the vigorous feat magic items, spells and your hit dice. And the only thing effecting wounds is con, the toughness feat and magic items/spells.
Also animal companions get 8 vigor a hit die.
If so I have to rewrite my character a bit.
Yes, sorry about that. I think i talked about this in the orginal thread, but negelected it here. Also, only permanent spells and items affect wounds.
Damn, that dwarf can fight
i forgot to add in the natural attacks. I did mean for them to have them. Bites on hurlocks and genlocks. Bites and claws for shrieks. Slams, bite, and gore on ogre.
The taint can be cured by remove disease and remove curse casted in tandem.
Changed to magic dr, but it starts at 5, not 0.
Natural armor now increases by size category.
SR removed.
You overdid it imo.
Darkspawn aren't meant to be THAT much more powerful than the races they hail from. They are so dangerous because they are so numerous, if you make them an army of super killers it stains credibility they can be defeated by enemies that are far weaker AND outnumbered.
Also note that DS are meant to be weaker without one of their leaders near, your rules should take that in account too.
Edit: unfortunately the dwarf missed his last attack... XD
Well in my behavior for them, I have them act stupidly. For example, I don't have them kill the mage first, take advantage of flanking, concentrate on one target, etc. They act mindlessly without direction. If I did have them act as an intelligent creature, you'd all probably be dead by now.
But how about this: After this fight, I'll make several different templates. A CR +0 that is less powerful than the ones now, and alpha template, CR+1, that is the same as the current one. And a CR+1 for emissary and a +2 alpha emissary.
Wound points/vigor are part of why they're so tough, in concert with the damage reduction.
Consider that to kill a genlock, you probably have to deal 10+2(dworf)+2(darkspawn)+8(vitality for a warrior.)
22 damage bare minimum.
That's two hits from a greatsword. Factor in DR, that's three hits from a greatsword.
That's a f*+*ing lot of damage.
They'd be a lot easier to deal with if we were going with hp instead. Then they'd take 15 damage in one blow to kill. That's one hit from a greatsword, most of the time.
On the other hand, we'd be dead by now, what with the damage we've taken.
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I have always thought the threat of the darkspawn was their unending numbers. As a rule they are not that bbright (exceptions do apply). If fact in the entire game of origins I remember precisely one darkspawn that didn't immediately attack non darkspawn. That was a genlock necromancer in one of the DLC. It instead fought a running battle with the party. Even the alphas attacked. They were tougher, and more intelligent about it but still.
This was because if they died they were more behind them. That's why the blight is such a threat. They just keep coming. Individually genlocks are not that tough. Dangerous yes, but not tough. Hurlocks are bit tougher, and more adaptable. Shrieks are kamikaze berserkers and orges smash. But numbers and unending persistence were thier threat. Thats why killing the archdemon was the only way to stop a blight. The others loose organization and retreat to the deep roads.
BTW their tactics have not been that bad. This ambush looks like succeeding. Not attacking the mage was never an issue. They may not have seen the mage, or they may think killing the combat people will make the slaughter easier. Or maybe it was first see, first kill. But anyway the way they can absorb damage combined with their damage reduction means bad things for us.
By the way, please don't take this as a personal criticism, as I understand a home brew like this is challenging, and needs adjustments and patience to work.
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I had a thought on potions
Potions in DA either restore hp or magic, or are poisons. For this game how about we treat them as follows
Heal potion
Lesser restore 1d6+1vigor dc15
Standard 2D6+3 dc20
Greater 3d6 + 5 dc25
Lyrium potions
As heal potions except magic points
Treat injury
Lesser 1wound dc16
Standard 3wounds dc21
Greater 4wounds dc26
The dc noted in the alchemy difficulty to make. Ingredients can be located with either knowledge nature or heal or survival checks.
Thinking out loud
I'd probably not do that. Health and mana potions are very much a video-game concept, and I don't think the setting is worse off for not having them.
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I disagree. Think about this combat. I have taken four wounds thus far, my companion has taken 20. Thats a lot of days healing, even with heal skill support. Now if the mage does nothing but heals, remember it is one per die healing of wounds, that will mean if the mage goes down we go down as we cannot quickly heal our wounds.
I think potions are an important part of the game. And this means it means finding ingredients is an important role, stocking on the potions is also important. It adds a supply context. It also means if someone wants to go alchemist they have a role.
The GM can control the number of potions we have by controlling the amount of ingredients we find, and also those that are for sale.
Basically darkspawn are a rip-off of the Tyranids from Wargammer 40k (and, for that matter, Demons and the Fade are just carbon copies of how the realm of Chaos works in the Warhammer universe). Tyranids have this thing called the Hive Mind and the same goes for Darkspwan (the song of the Old Gods IIRC), the Hive Mind is able to better control and make these creatures more efficient thanks to some "more evolved creatures" transmitting its will to lesser creatures in the vicinity (Alphas and Emissaries in DA), without those the DS are unable to cohordinate and fight properly.
My suggestion would be to add negative modifiers to these templates to account for the possibility the individual darkspawn is left without its leaders, thus being unable to "make sense" of the song of the Old Gods". On the other hand the DS efficency could be boosted when near the Archdemon, the one true source of the song.
Henry: Please don't be afraid to dole out criticism. This is homebrew. I am the DM, so I do have final say, but I will always consider feedback from players.
Healing potions already exist. Potion of Cure Light/Mod etc. And I was going to have you go find ingredients for potions anyways.
As for Mana, it kind of throws a wrench in the works in terms of balance. I'll think about it, but also remember that Lyrium has to be mined. And Darkspawn currently control most of the deep roads. And this is during a blight.
The injury healers (I forgot their name at the moment) were basically just healer's kits. Long term care will net you about 4 wounds a night, if she passes, 8 if you are lucky. Considering real world healing, that's pretty fast.
I am going to take another look at darkspawn, taking your comments into consideration.
Hmm. RE: darkspawn template.
There's an aspect that I hadn't been considering before.
The save or die disease probably pushes it from strong CR+1 to low-medium CR+2.
Save or die effects are rather nasty, even if they come in the form of a disease that takes a few days to take hold. It means that more or less 25% of everyone who faces darkspawn in melee will be dead roughly a week after the fact.
Do you bleed when you're below half vigor and unconsciouss? I could not find any mention of it in any of the vigor rules, so I'm naturally hoping no.
Edit: Also, can I have an update on that crit when you get around to it? :)
I based the taint (and the template) partly off of lycanthropy. It has a save or be afflicted. And do remember that this was a big problem for the armies facing the blight. The darkspawn specifically coat their weapons in blood to taint people.
You only "bleed" if you move or take a standard action, resulting in the loss of one wound.
I based the taint (and the template) partly off of lycanthropy. It has a save or be afflicted. And do remember that this was a big problem for the armies facing the blight. The darkspawn specifically coat their weapons in blood to taint people.
You only "bleed" if you move or take a standard action, resulting in the loss of one wound.
Thanks for the update on wounds.
And I absolutely agree about the taint thing. It is an in-setting save or die thing, and of course it should be treated as such.
I also think it should be priced as such in the CR of the template, is what I'm saying.
I want to do a sequence with you in the Fade, while the other two roleplay through this next part. We can either do this by PM to keep it a secret, or do it here so the others may see (but be outside their character knowledge unless you tell them), maybe keeping it under spoilers so they can choose.
I would prefer to keep it in spoilers in this thread, unless plot-sensitive issues will be revealed, in which case I agree that it should be done in PM's.
Whatever the case, I'd be very grateful if you could tell me how PM's work? It has been bothering me for a while now that I can't seem to find the right button.
Yeah I tried to pm you before, but you may have some altered privacy settings going on because you do not have the right buttons on your profile. Basically go to the persons profile page and there should be a button that says send private message.
It's semi plot sensitive, but as long as the others keep it out of their character's knowledge, it should be fine.
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Thinking a bit more.
The taint is very rough. I understand your reasons for it to be so but it is very rough.
If you have a genlock CON16, which with dwarf and darkspawn bonuses is realistic, then thats DC 15 fo the save. Now taking my character, which has a +1 save. That means I fail 65% of the time. To make two saves, so as to not die, is harder, failing 88 to 89% of the time. the time.
Now killing that genlock means taking out its wounds and vigor. Now taking the example of the genlock above, making it a warrior 2 that means 16 vigor and 32 wounds. Unless you critical with a high damga weapon, no first level character can drop one. Also with DR5 this becomes worse.
I suggest the following changes
1/ make it that to poison their weapons they must do wound damage to them selves, or another dark spawn. Say 1 point.
2/ say that after one hit or three vigor hits that the poison is rubbed of. It must be reapplied (see 1)
3/ allow a heal check to replce the 2nd fort save.
Also, on a unrelated note. Anyone under rage should be able to ignore the 50% wound rule, until they are out of rage.
I have enabled my PM functin. Ready whenever you are, will be on for the next five or so hours, although I will be distracted.
Henry, I think you misunderstand the saves. You only need to make the second one if you failed the first one. It's another chance at making it.
I like the first two suggestions, so I will incorporate that.
I will allow a heal check to assist i.e. give you a +2 if they make a dc 10 heal check.
This is the new template for darkspawn. The old one will be the alpha template.
Darkvision 60, raise by 30 if they already have it.
Taint is of the aforementioned DC disease effect, applied like poison. Takes a standard to apply and one wound point. Lasts 1d3 hits.
Bite natural attack if from human or dwarf. Bite and claw for elf. Bite, 2 slams, Gore for qunari.
Maybe +1 natural armor. +2 for alphas.
Call of the Old God - They behave mindlessly unless within 60ft of an alpha. Cannot benefit from flanking, sneak attack, or full attacks.
I also like your suggestion on rage, but I worry about balance there. (It's also not 50%, its your con score. If you take toughness, that would not factor into your wounds threshold. A 14 con person with toughness starts making those checks at 14, regardless of how many wounds they get from toughness)
I think this final version of the DS template is much better. Foot soldiers with DR5/Magic seemed a bit too much especially in a world where magical weapons are far from the norm.
About the game proper: I'm tempted to answer in character for Yarask. Yet that won't be the best course of action for the group.
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I understand, what I notrd was the chance to fail both saves expresssed as a single value.
I like the new template. For call of the old gods, why not simply have them attack like animals. They can get flank, by accident but not as an intentional move. No DR is good. I think orges and shrieks should get rage.
Thanks for the correction on the wound threshold.
I don't think the rage ability I noted is unbalanced as when the age ends the berserker probably colapses.
The chance of failing both saves is P(~A and ~B) or ~A * ~B, a and b being the probability of success. So for you, you have to get a 14 or higher on the die to succeed, or .65 for ~A and ~B each. You have a 42.5% chance of failing both, thereby becoming a ghoul (eventually). If you have a healer assist, this lowers to 35.75% (.65*.55). The only way adding saves makes it harder is if it is required you make all of them. Here, you only have to make one.
And this is for someone with just a +1 save. The others have even lower chances of failure. Granted, the DC will get higher with more powerful darkspawn, but it should be roughly the same rates.