| Nerd-Ass Mess |
Hi! Hey. I'm the proprietor of Nerd-Ass Mess, a blog I started last month where I'm posting all the Pathfinder builds I've been making instead of working for the past year and a half. This one's a test post because it's hard to tell where on this forum I should put something like this.
I'm not really asking for advice, though I think I'd take it if I agreed with it. I'm not asking any rules questions, either! I just want to share this weird pastime with other people- otherwise it's kind of a waste(I have like forty of these).
On the blog I do by-level breakdowns which, with a little formatting, end up looking cleaner than this. If you'd like to see the original post, it's here.
I also type out a self-interested preface which includes sort of a synopsis of each character along with a statement of intent and normally a bunch of profanity (this one actually doesn't have any). Use the web address above if you'd like to see a more detailed explanation of the build.
On the advice of Jeff at Zenith Games, I'm posting here to gauge interest- let me know if you have any suggestions, comments or questions because I am interested in constructive feedback. Thanks!
Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion), Level 20
(worships Irori, god of self-perfection)
Race: Fetchling, +2 DEX, +2 CHA, -2 WIS (+1 Hit Point/+1 Skill Point/+¼ to ally morale bonus against fear effects)
Racial Traits
Bound To Here (counts as outsider and humanoid, can pass as human)
Deep Shadow Explorer (+2 to saving throws against fear)
Shadow Blending (attacks against character in dim light grant 50% miss chance due to concealment)
Umbral Escort (can use Shadow Walk and Plane Shift abilities to affect other creatures in addition to self)
Shadowy Resistance (resistance 5 against cold and electricity)
Spell-Like Abilities: at 9th level 1/day Shadow Walk; at 13th Level 1/day Plane Shift (Shadow Plane only)
Darkvision 60’
Character Traits/Drawbacks
Drawback: (Detriment, Circumstance)
Faith: Irrepressible (CHA instead of WIS to determine saving throws against charm and compulsion)
Magic: Mutant Eye [+2 to Sense Motive (+4 to determine if creature is under mind-affecting effect), -1 Bluff/Diplomacy]
Religion: Defensive Strategist (do not count as flat-footed in surprise round or before acting in combat)
Point Buy 20 Racial Lv.4 Lv.8 Lv.12 Lv.16 Lv.20
STR 8
DEX 15 17 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10 8
CHA 16 18 19 20 21 22
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft (Any), Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Religion), Profession (Any), Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Swim.
Known Languages: Common
1: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 1 (d10 HD), +1 Hit Point
BAB: +1
Base Saves: +4/+3/+1 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiencies, Light Armor Proficiency, Aura Of Law, Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike, Sense Perfection, Personal Trial (+1) 1/day, [1st Level Feat] Weapon Finesse, [Anti-Hero] Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike: 1d6
2: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 2, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +2
Base Saves: +9/+7/+6 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Grace, Lay On Hands
Skills(2): Knowledge (Religion), Sense Motive
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike: 1d6
3: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 3, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +3
Base Saves: +9/+8/+6 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Excellence, Mercy (3rd) (as relevant depending on campaign), [3rd Level Feat] Snake Style
Skills(2): Climb/Swim, Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike: 1d6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
4: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 4, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +4
Ability Score Increase: DEX +1 (18)
Base Saves: +10/+9/+7 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Weapon Specialization Warpriest Sacred Weapon, Ki Pool, Personal Trial (+2) 2/day, [Divine Weapon Specialization (4th)] Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Sense Motive, Swim/Climb
Base Ki Points: 6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 2d6, 6/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d6
5: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 5, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +5
Base Saves: +10/+9/+7 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+1) 1/day, [5th Level Feat] Combat Reflexes
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 2d6, 6/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d8
6: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 6, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +6/+1
Base Saves: +11/+10/+8 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (6th) (as relevant depending on campaign)
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 7
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 3d6, 7/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d8
7: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 7, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +7/+2
Base Saves: +11/+10/+8 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Personal Trial (+2) 3/day, [7th Level Feat] Snake Sidewind
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 7
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 3d6, 7/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d8
8: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 8, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +8/+3
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (19)
Base Saves: +12/+10/+9 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Resolve, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+2) 1/day, Personal Trial (+3) 3/day, [Divine Weapon Specialization (8th)] Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 8
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 4d6, 8/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d8
9: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 9, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +9/+4
Base Saves: +12/+11/+9 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: [Fetchling] Shadow Walk Spell-Like Ability, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+2) 2/day, Mercy (9th) (as relevant depending on campaign), [9th Level Feat] Snake Fang
Skills(2): Acrobatics, Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 8
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 4d6, 8/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d8
10: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 10, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +10/+5
Base Saves: +13/+11/+10 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Personal Trial (+3) 4/day
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 9
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 5d6, 9/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d10
11: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 11, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +11/+6/+1
Base Saves: +13/+11/+10 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Perfection, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+3) 2/day, [11th Level Feat] Lunge
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 9
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 5d6, 9/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d10
12: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 12, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +12/+7/+2
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (20)
Base Saves: +15/+13/+12 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (12th) (as relevant depending on campaign), Personal Trial (+4) 4/day, [Divine Weapon Specialization (12th)] Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 11
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 6d6, 11/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d10
13: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 13, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +13/+8/+3
Base Saves: +15/+13/+12 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: [Fetchling] Plane Shift Spell-Like Ability, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+3) 3/day, Personal Trial (+4) 5/day, [13th Level Feat] Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 11
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 6d6, 11/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d10
14: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 14, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +14/+9/+4
Base Saves: +16/+13/+13 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Faith, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+4) 3/day
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 12
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 7d6, 12/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 1d10
15: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 15, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +15/+10/+5
Base Saves: +16/+14/+13 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (15th) (as relevant depending on campaign), [15th Level Feat] Piranha Strike or Toughness
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 12
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 7d6, 12/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d6
16: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 16, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (21)
Base Saves: +17/+14/+14 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Personal Trial (+5) 4/day, [Divine Weapon Specialization (16th)] Disruptive
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 13
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 8d6, 13/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d6
17: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 17, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +17/+12/+7/+2
Base Saves: +17/+14/+14 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Righteousness, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+5) 4/day, Personal Trial (+5) 5/day, [17th Level Feat] Toughness or Piranha Strike
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 13
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 8d6, 13/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d6
18: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 18, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +18/+13/+8/+3
Base Saves: +18/+15/+15 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (18th) (as relevant depending on campaign)
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 14
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 9d6, 14/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d6
19: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 19, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +19/+14/+9/+4
Base Saves: +18/+15/+15 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: [19th Level Feat] Word Of Healing
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 14
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 9d6, 14/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d6
20: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin, Tempered Champion) 20, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (22)
Base Saves: +20/+16/+17 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Holy Champion, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+6) 4/day, Personal Trial (+6) 6/day, [Divine Weapon Specialization (20th)] Penetrating Strike (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(2): Sense Motive, (as desired)
Base Ki Points: 16
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 10d6, 16/day
Divine Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike: 2d8
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
Here is a list of notable eligible abilities for the Amulet Of Mighty Fists and Divine Bond:
(* abilities can be granted by Divine Bond class ability and should not be added to the amulet)
Agile, +1 bonus
Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with an agile weapon in place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.
Corrosive/Flaming*/Frost/Shock, +1 bonus
Upon command, a corrosive/flaming/frost/shock weapon is sheathed in a terrible, icy acid/flame/cold/electricity that deals an extra 1d6 points of energy damage on a successful hit. The energy damage does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.
Defending*, +1 bonus
A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn. This ability can only be placed on melee weapons.
Heartseeker, +1 bonus
A heartseeker weapon is drawn unerringly toward beating hearts. A heartseeker weapon ignores the miss chance for concealment against most living targets, though the attack must still target the proper square. This special ability does not apply against aberrations, oozes, plants, outsiders with the elemental subtype, or any creature specifically noted to lack a heart.
Keen*, +1 bonus
This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen. If you roll this special ability randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll. This benefit doesn't stack with any other effects that expand the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).
Keen can technically be added to unarmed strike if Snake Style feat has been activated.
Merciful*, +1 bonus
A merciful weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, but all damage it deals is nonlethal damage. On command, the weapon suppresses this ability until told to resume it (allowing it to deal lethal damage, but without any bonus damage from this ability).
Anchoring, +2 bonus
This special ability can only be added to a melee weapon or a thrown weapon. An anchoring weapon pins a target in place and prevents it from moving. As a swift action, the weapon can be fixed in place in a point in space, functioning as an immovable rod. This ability can also be used when the wielder hits a creature with a melee attack using an anchoring weapon. This anchors the target to the weapon, preventing it from moving away from the weapon. The target is not entangled or paralyzed; it simply cannot move from its location without first destroying the weapon or making a successful DC 30 Strength check as a full-round action to move with the weapon up to 10 feet. An anchoring weapon remains motionless and cannot be used to attack while it is anchoring a creature. An anchoring weapon has no effect on amorphous creatures, including elementals, oozes, and creatures in gaseous or liquid form. It also cannot anchor incorporeal creatures unless the weapon also has the ghost touch special ability.
Anchoring is only added here because it is an interesting idea to be able to turn your hand into an immovable rod as a swift action. Implementation would likely be messy if feasible.
Axiomatic*, +2 bonus
An axiomatic weapon is infused with lawful power. It makes the weapon law-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against chaotic creatures. It bestows one permanent negative level on any chaotic creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Corrosive Burst/Flaming Burst*/Icy Burst/Shocking Burst,+2 bonus
A corrosive/flaming/icy/shocking burst weapon functions as a corrosive/flaming/frost/shock weapon that explodes with volatile energy upon striking a successful critical hit. The energy damage does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra energy damage from the corrosive/flaming/frost/shock special ability, a corrosive/flaming/frost/shock burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of appropriate energy damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon's critical modifier is x3, add an extra 2d10 points of energy damage instead, and if the modifier is x4, add an extra 3d10 points.
Even if the corrosive ability is not active, the weapon still deals its extra acid damage on a successful critical hit.
Disruption*, +2 bonus
A disruption weapon is the bane of all undead. Any undead creature struck in combat must succeed on a DC 14 Will save or be destroyed. A disruption weapon must be a bludgeoning melee weapon.
Furyborn, +2 bonus
A furyborn weapon draws power from the anger and frustration the wielder feels when battling foes that refuse to die. Each time the wielder damages an opponent with the weapon, its enhancement bonus increases by +1 when making attacks against that opponent (to a maximum total enhancement bonus of +5). This extra enhancement bonus goes away if the opponent dies, the wielder uses the weapon to attack a different creature, or 1 hour passes.
Holy*, +2 bonus
A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all creatures of evil alignment. It bestows one permanent negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Phase Locking, +2 bonus
A phase locking weapon interferes with dimensional travel. A creature damaged by a phase locking weapon is affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round.
Sharding, +2 bonus
The wielder of a sharding weapon can make a special ranged attack with the weapon in place of any melee attack. To do this, the wielder goes through the motion of throwing the weapon without releasing it. The weapon splits off a duplicate of itself that flies as if thrown by the wielder at the intended target. The duplicate gains a range increment of 10 feet for this purpose, but uses the same proficiency and otherwise functions the same as the original weapon. The duplicate vanishes after hitting or missing its target
Nullifying, +3 bonus
A nullifying weapon suppresses a creature's spell resistance for a short amount of time. Anytime the weapon strikes a creature with spell resistance and the creature takes damage from the weapon, the target's spell resistance is reduced by 1 for 1 minute. On a confirmed critical hit, its spell resistance is instead reduced by an amount equal to the weapon's critical multiplier. Multiple hits from a nullifying weapon stack.
Speed*, +3 bonus
When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)
Brilliant Energy*, +4 bonus
A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item's weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, or objects.
Dueling, +(14000 GP) bonus
A dueling weapon (which must be a weapon that can be used with the Weapon Finesse feat) gives the wielder a +4 enhancement bonus on initiative checks, provided the weapon is drawn and in hand when the Initiative check is made. It provides a +2 bonus on disarm checks and feint checks, a +2 bonus to CMD to resist disarm attempts, and a +2 to the DC to perform a feint against the wielder.
Finally, I'd like to link to a by-level damage progression chart for this character here.
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
Defensive strategist requires worshipping Torag, not Irori.
Oh, okay! That is my fault for using the D20PFSRD, which just says "hey I can't say what god/religion this is". This character does have to worship Irori to use Unarmed Strike as its favored weapon for Tempered Champion Divine Weapon Specialization, though. It is a shame, but does not break the build; I will change it now. Thanks!
Edit: Oh, I guess I can't edit that post anymore. Okay, well, change it to
Regional: Quain Martial Artist (+1 damage when using unarmed strikes)
Quain has Irori worshipers, so that works!
| Chess Pwn |
You can't combine Tempered Champion and "Enlightened Paladin".
Both are altering divine bond.
Tempered Champion
Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, a tempered champion must select a weapon for her divine bond. If she is out of daily uses, she can expend a use of lay on hands to activate this ability.
"Enlightened Paladin"
Divine Body (Su): Upon reaching 5th level, an Iroran paladin must form a bond with a weapon, except he can only choose to enhance his unarmed strike. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces divine bond.
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
You can't combine Tempered Champion and "Enlightened Paladin".
Both are altering divine bond.Tempered Champion
Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, a tempered champion must select a weapon for her divine bond. If she is out of daily uses, she can expend a use of lay on hands to activate this ability."Enlightened Paladin"
Divine Body (Su): Upon reaching 5th level, an Iroran paladin must form a bond with a weapon, except he can only choose to enhance his unarmed strike. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces divine bond.
Yeah! I saw that and mentioned it in the 'Self-Important Preface' on my original blog post- they do not contradict each other. They do both mention Divine Bond, but I took it as that they both have and fulfill the same requirement since Tempered Champion is missing the "this replaces Divine Bond" errata along with the language of "this ability (otherwise) functions as Divine Bond". I am seeing it as an addition to the class feature, allowing Lay On Hands replacement, rather than a replacement of the class feature. Of course, I would like my build to work.
If that is incorrect, then okay! The build does a lot less damage and that is unfortunate. I would at least mention the counterpoint to my GM (unless I found a FAQ ruling or something that clearly states otherwise). I feel like it's a gray area. Thank you for looking, regardless!
| Chess Pwn |
There is a FAQ covering this
In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes.
So limiting to weapon bond and limiting to weapon bond US are altering the same feature. Similarly a Cleric has many archetypes that say "this cleric only gets one domain" you can't stack these because they are all altering the domain feature even though they are all altering the same way.
Mark a DEV has officially stated that just because something doesn't directly say "this alters/replaces X" doesn't mean it doesn't alter or replace X. It's a line they are trying to remember to add more often, but it's only a helper, not an official indicator.
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
Hey, thanks! Okay, I'll keep that in mind from now on. I have at least one other build (it's actually a one-domain cleric build!) that does this (though it doesn't screw it up so bad).
I'll make the necessary adjustments and post the s*@~tier build. It's still defensively viable, but the damage just got embarrassing. This has been helpful, I appreciate the direct link!
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
I fixed it! It's actually better this way- dipping into Monk for three levels lets it ignore the prerequisites for the Snake Style feat chain, letting it get Snake Fang at level 4(!) and freeing up some feat slots. Additionally, it qualifies this character for Monastic Legacy, which stacks with the Enlightened Paladin 1/2 monk unarmed strike to give it full monk unarmed strike progression. It also gets Evasion, a faster movement speed, and its Paladin spells back, all in exchange for a slower ability progression and lower CHA.
I don't know if I'm into it, but INT is now 8 to let this character qualify for Perfect Strike (I didn't want to lower STR any more), which means its only real skill is Sense Motive. Its saves are still great and it actually has higher damage die by level and a lot of danger-mitigating immediate-action options (Snake Style, Snake Sidewind, Divine Interference, the Paladin spell Hero's Defiance, etc.).
Thanks for your help, Snakers and Chess Pwn!
I've posted a full re-write here.
Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 17, Monk (Master Of Many Styles) 3
(worships Irori, god of self-perfection)
Race: Fetchling, +2 DEX, +2 CHA, -2 WIS (+1 Hit Point/+1 Skill Point/+¼ to ally morale bonus against fear effects)
Racial Traits
Bound To Here (counts as outsider and humanoid, can pass as human)
Deep Shadow Explorer (+2 to saving throws against fear)
Shadow Blending (attacks against character in dim light grant 50% miss chance due to concealment)
Umbral Escort (can use Shadow Walk and Plane Shift abilities to affect other creatures in addition to self)
Shadowy Resistance (resistance 5 against cold and electricity)
Spell-Like Abilities: at 9th level 1/day Shadow Walk; at 13th Level 1/day Plane Shift (Shadow Plane only)
Darkvision 60’
Character Traits/Drawbacks
Drawback: (Detriment, Circumstance)
Faith: Irrepressible (CHA instead of WIS to determine saving throws against charm and compulsion)
Magic: Mutant Eye [+2 to Sense Motive (+4 to determine if creature is under mind-affecting effect), -1 Bluff/Diplomacy]
Regional: Quain Martial Artist (+1 damage to unarmed strikes)
Point Buy 20
STR 8
DEX 15 (17)
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 15 (13)
CHA 14 (16)
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft (Any), Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Religion), Profession (Any), Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Swim.
Known Languages: Common
1: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 1 (d10 HD), +1 Hit Point
BAB: +1
Base Saves: +4/+3/+3 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiencies, Light Armor Proficiency, Aura Of Law, Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike, Sense Perfection, Personal Trial (+1) 1/day, [1st Level Feat] Weapon Finesse, [Anti-Hero] Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike: 1d6
2: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 2, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +2
Base Saves: +7/+6/+6 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Grace, Lay On Hands
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike: 1d6
Additional Class Skills at Level 3: Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Perception, Perform (Any), and Stealth.
3: Monk (Monk Of Many Styles) 1 (d8 HD)
BAB: +2
Base Saves: +7/+7/+6 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Monk AC Bonus, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Monk Unarmed Strike, Fuse Style, Stunning Fist 1/day, [3rd Level Feat] Snake Style, [Monk Bonus] Snake Sidewind
Skills(3): Acrobatics, Climb/Swim, Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
4: Monk (Monk Of Many Styles) 2
BAB: +3
Ability Score Increase: DEX +1 (18)
Base Saves: +8/+8/+7 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Evasion, Stunning Fist 2/day, [Monk Bonus] Snake Fang
Skills(3): Knowledge (Religion), Sense Motive, Swim/Climb
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
5: Monk (Monk Of Many Styles) 3
BAB: +4
Base Saves: +8/+9/+7 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Fast Movement (40’), Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Stunning Fist 3/day, [5th Level Feat] Monastic Legacy
Skills(3): Perception x2, Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d8
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
6: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 3, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +5
Base Saves: +9/+9/+8 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Excellence, Mercy (3rd) (as relevant depending on campaign)
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d8
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 1d6, 5/day
7: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 4, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +6/+1
Base Saves: +9/+9/+8 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Ki Pool, Personal Trial (+2) 2/day, Stunning Fist 4/day, [7th Level Feat] Combat Reflexes
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 5
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 2d6, 6/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d8
Base Spells Per Day: 1 Lvl. 1
8: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 5, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +7/+2
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (17)
Base Saves: +10/+10/+9 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+1) 1/day
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 5
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 2d6, 6/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d10
Base Spells Per Day: 2 Lvl. 1
9: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 6, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +8/+3
Base Saves: +10/+10/+9 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: [Fetchling] Shadow Walk Spell-Like Ability, Mercy (6th) (as relevant depending on campaign), [9th Level Feat] Perfect Strike (4/day)
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 3d6, 7/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d10
Base Spells Per Day: 2 Lvl. 1
10: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 7, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +9/+4
Base Saves: +11/+10/+10 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Personal Trial (+2) 3/day
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 6
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 3d6, 7/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d10
Base Spells Per Day: 2 Lvl. 1, 1 Lvl. 2
11: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 8, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +10/+5
Base Saves: +11/+11/+10 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Resolve, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+2) 1/day, Perfect Strike 5/day, Personal Trial (+3) 3/day, Stunning Fist 5/day, [11th Level Feat] Divine Interference
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 7
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 4d6, 8/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 1d10
Base Spells Per Day: 2 Lvl. 1, 2 Lvl. 2
12: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 9, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +11/+6/+1
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (18)
Base Saves: +13/+12/+11 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+2) 2/day, Mercy (9th) (as relevant depending on campaign)
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 8
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 4d6, 8/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d6
Base Spells Per Day: 3 Lvl. 1, 2 Lvl. 2
13: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 10, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +12/+7/+/2
Base Saves: +13/+12/+11 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: [Fetchling] Plane Shift Spell-Like Ability, Personal Trial (+3) 4/day, [13th Level Feat] Toughness
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 9
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 5d6, 9/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d6
Base Spells Per Day: 3 Lvl. 1, 2 Lvl. 2, 1 Lvl. 3
14: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 11, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +13/+8/+3
Base Saves: +14/+13/+12 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Perfection, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+3) 2/day
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 9
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 5d6, 9/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d6
Base Spells Per Day: 3 Lvl. 1, 2 Lvl. 2, 2 Lvl. 3
15: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 12, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +14/+9/+4
Base Saves: +14/+13/+12 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (12th) (as relevant depending on campaign), Perfect Strike 6/day, Personal Trial (+4) 4/day, Stunning Fist 6/day, [15th Level Feat] Lunge
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 10
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 6d6, 11/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d6
Base Spells Per Day: 3 Lvl. 1, 3 Lvl. 2, 2 Lvl. 3
16: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 13, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +15/+10/+5
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (19)
Base Saves: +15/+13/+13 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+3) 3/day, Personal Trial (+4) 5/day
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 10
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 6d6, 11/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d8
Base Spells Per Day: 4 Lvl. 1, 3 Lvl. 2, 2 Lvl. 3, 1 Lvl. 4
17: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 14, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1
Base Saves: +15/+14/+13 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Faith, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+4) 3/day, [17th Level Feat] Piranha Strike
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 11
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 7d6, 12/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d8
Base Spells Per Day: 4 Lvl. 1, 3 Lvl. 2, 2 Lvl. 3, 2 Lvl. 4
18: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 15, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +17/+12/+7/+2
Base Saves: +16/+14/+14 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Mercy (15th) (as relevant depending on campaign)
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 11
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 7d6, 12/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d8
Base Spells Per Day: 4 Lvl. 1, 3 Lvl. 2, 3 Lvl. 3, 2 Lvl. 4
19: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 16, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +18/+13/+8/+3
Base Saves: +16/+14/+14 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Perfect Strike 7/day, Personal Trial (+5) 4/day, Stunning Fist 7/day. [19th Level Feat] Crusader’s Fist
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 12
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 8d6, 13/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d8
Base Spells Per Day: 4 Lvl. 1, 4 Lvl. 2, 3 Lvl. 3, 2 Lvl. 4
20: Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 17, +1 Hit Point
BAB: +19/+14/+9/+4
Ability Score Increase: CHA +1 (20)
Base Saves: +18/+16/+16 (CHA instead of WIS against charm/compulsion)
New Feats: Aura Of Righteousness, Divine Bond (Unarmed Strike) (+5) 4/day, Personal Trial (+5) 5/day
Skills(1): Sense Motive
Base Ki Points: 13
Base Lay On Hands Amount, Frequency: 8d6, 13/day
Enlightened Paladin/Monk Unarmed Strike: 2d10
Base Spells Per Day: 6 Lvl. 1, 4 Lvl. 2, 3 Lvl. 3, 2 Lvl. 4
| Chess Pwn |
MoMS was errata'd in the last reprint to no longer skip prereqs for feats. So no getting snake fang early and without getting snake sidewind.
Also the paladins unarmed strike damage progression doesn't stack with the Monks unarmed strike damage progression.
| Nerd-Ass Mess |
MoMS was errata'd in the last reprint to no longer skip prereqs for feats. So no getting snake fang early and without getting snake sidewind.
Also the paladins unarmed strike damage progression doesn't stack with the Monks unarmed strike damage progression.
Thanks! The Master Of Many Styles errata is unfortunate but sort of makes sense. (Also, Snake Sidewind's in the build, at level 3.) Then this character'd just use the "wildcard slot" ability to get it at its normal levels, I guess. Doesn't break the build, though it'd be nice to find a copy or link of/to the new reprint so I'm not making more defunct builds.
Your second comment doesn't make any sense to me, though- why wouldn't the Monk levels and Monastic Legacy stack with the Enlightened Fist's progression?
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(Enlightened Paladin) Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, an Enlightened Paladin gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. In addition, he gains the unarmed strike monk ability, treating his monk level as half his paladin level (minimum 1) for calculating his unarmed strike damage.
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Monastic Legacy
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.
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Levels in Paladin are levels in classes other than monk. This character has three monk levels to gain Still Mind and qualify for Monastic Legacy. Levels in Enlightened Paladin are paladin levels that are "[treated as 1/2 monk levels] for calculating unarmed strike damage". They're still Paladin levels, though- they are not Monk levels. Why wouldn't they count for Monastic Legacy, to "add half the levels you have in classes other than monk" ? And the Enlightened Paladin Unarmed Strike ability states that it IS the unarmed strike monk ability, albeit at 1/2 level, which ought to stack with itself when this character becomes an actual monk.
Do you mean to say this character has both the unarmed strike of a paladin training as a monk fortified by its actual training as a monk, and then a separate, terrible unarmed strike from when it trained for real as a monk? Please elaborate!
| Chess Pwn |
You'd need 6 levels of MoMS to get a wildcard slot.
Enlightened paladin levels give IUS equal to 1/2 their level. They don't say that they stack with other sources of IUS damage from a monk. So you have two progressions one at 3+1/2 paladin if you take monastic legacy and one at 1/2 paladin.