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In my spare time I have been working on a combat formula, and in general just a way to rate optimization. I've started out on the thread here but I've redone everything and am taking a different spin. A lot of stuff will stay the same, but I want to make this into an official 12 point scale. To do this I need to know what constitutes as 12 points, and what constitutes as 1. Maybe later I can even add tiers to give guidelines. So! Using these formulas I need to see the highest and lowest numbers I can get. I hereby challenge all the optimizers out there to try and help find this range. I would say a 12th level characters should be a good point to test this out. I'll start a new thread later with better formulae and other goodies. I would love to see this be something people actually use. I am aware there are gaps in what I cover, but one thing at a time. All the stuff that says enemy armor class and whatnot uses the bestiary guide with a CR equal to the PC level. Good luck. Also, if you happen to break it, let me know and I'll try to fix this.
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The Guide to Builds has a bunch of builds.
and Ravingdork has a Crazy Character Emporium with plenty as well.
/cevah
Thanks. Took a look and it looks like the DPR to beat is 223 damage. Whoo! That's a lot. I suppose thinking through the weakest damage dealer would likely be some sort of wizard. (Spells will get their own formulae soon). I'll see how crappy a melee build I can work up ;)
All right I'm back. I made an L12 Kobold Wizard (I apologize to Kobold fans, but you know it's the worst melee creature out there), who specializes in melee despite... You know what. He had a strength score of 3 meaning a -4 penalty. He has a base attack bonus of 6. So just knocking three baselines out of the way, if he uses a dagger he deals 1d3-4 damage. I'll just treat that as one damage despite it being nonlethal. This means his average damage per round is two, with two attacks. (Despite horrid penalties).100 - 5(EAC - AB): His AB is +3 for the first attack,and -1 for the first. Coupled with an EAC of 27, this gives him a score of -120. The secondary score is -140. This means for full attack his accuracy is a score of -130. Damage: He deals two damage a round, so it would take 80 rounds to kill the average CR 12 opponent.
Recap:
Single Strike Accuracy: -120
Full Attack Accuracy: -130
Rounds 'Till Enemy Death: 80 (It would take eight minutes of him poking someone without them hitting back)
I think I may have just made the worst melee character ever... Technically the score for accuracy was supposed to be percentages, but he was so bad... So this constitutes 1 point! Also, there probably is a way to make a worse melee build, but I think this is a good baseline as realistically it shouldn't matter too much. Up next I need the worst runners, the worst crit build (pretty easy) and then the best for a whole bunch of stuff.
Worst runner is pretty easy. Lowest I could get constitution would be a five. However that requires a constitution penalty, which small races don't seem to have, except for Kobolds... Luckily for Kobold fans they're too fast. So as a sample I choose an Elf, and a Halfling. The Elf has a -3 penalty on constitution, multiplied by 2(for encumbered speed) gives a score of -6. The Halfling has a -2 penalty, but a speed of 1.5 (encumbered) giving a score of -3. This probably needs to be revised to add constitution bonus rather than multiply, as funky stuff happens. So, then it would just be -1 and -0.5 The worst movement to beat is -0.5
I think I may have just made the worst melee character ever...Meh, that attack bonus could be lower. You forgot to have him fighting defensively and using Combat Expertise with his tower shield and diminutive greatsword.
Fair point. I think it's small enough though because otherwise the scale starts to look a bit weird. Kudos for coming up with your melee build though. ;)
Have him cursed so 50% of his actions just outright fail.
Have the weapon enchanted with a alignment opposite of himself to inflict negative levels.
Be under the constant effect of doom or bane or similiar debuffs.
Thats just a few things i can think of, maybe let him willingly fail the poison save for strenght damage poisons?
What if he is using an improvised weapon? And trying to do no-lethal damage even though the weapon doesn't support that? For example, that broken bottle of beer does a poor job an knocking someone unconscious.
/cevah
As a Wizard, wear a broken fullplate and a broken towershield, if you dont have prof you get the Armor check to your attack plus the extra from broken. And i am not sure what would give you less a improvised weapon or a broken diminutive weapon enchanted with his opposite alignment.
I think this would net you quite a heavy minus.
So, how would you rate this build for Single Strike Accuracy?
Level 1, Ninja: Precise Shot
2N2: Vanishing Trick
3N2Arcanist1, Dimensional slide, Deadly AimThis character can turn Invisible as a Swift Action. Invisible characters deny opponents their Dex mods, so they target Flatfooted AC, and they get Sneak Attack Damage automatically. An Arcanist can cast Sorcer/Wizard Cantrips, such as Jolt and Acid Splash: Range Touch Attacks.
So this character only has a BAB of +1, Let's say he has a Dex of 16. But he is targeting opponents' Flatfooted Touch AC.
just rate it like that. They get a damage boost so you would ignore flat-footedness as that balances out somewhat. Regardless, touch AC or flat foot isn't always reliable, so plug in as is and it should balance out.
Rounds till enemy death/accuracy?
A character with Greater Grapple, Expert Captor, levels in Alchemist, and Potion Glutton?
Greater Grapple lets you make 2 checks/round, 1 as a Standard Action, like normal, the second as a Move Action.
Expert Captor lets you Tie Up a Grappled--not Pinned--opponent as one of your Grapple-bad-stuff-things, and you don't take the -10 you normally do.
So if this character begins his round adjacent to hie opponent, he can Grapple as a Standard Action, then Tie Up as a Move Action. "Instant kill"?
True Strike is an Alchemist Extract.
Potion Glutton lets you take any Potable--and English Language word that means "drinkable"--as a Swift Action. I was thinking this character would carry a Wand of True Strike. He might use the Wand on himself, drop it, then move in on his opponent in the first round, then on the 2nd Grapple as a Standard Action with an extra +20, take an Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, then Grapple again as a Move Action for another +20, and just Tie Up that pesky old Balor Demon. I have a Grappling character who had a full time GMB of +30 at level 8. So, yes she could be humiliating and dominating a Balor Demon after 1 round of melee, if she had strong enough rope, that is.
I don't have a formula for combat maneuvers but I'll see about including speed for grapple. Also, isn't true strikes just for attacks?
All right then, I took a look and I'm making a couple changes. First, I'm doing 10 point scale. It's just easier. Also, I'm not going to do max-low because I notice that essentially any martial character would automatically get 10 points. It shouldn't be easy, it should be a sign of excellent optimization. I have one done for Damage evaluation. Let's take a look at the scale for Rounds 'Till Enemy Death. First repeating the formula
Now the scale.(The numbers are the maximum for that score)
9- 2.5 Rounds
8- 4 Rounds
7- 5.5 Rounds
6- 7 Rounds
5- 8.5 Rounds
4- 10 Rounds
3- 11.5 Rounds
2- 13 Rounds
1- Anything Higher
I came up with that scale by deciding the middle or higher middle. The highest DPR I could find would destroy a monster in one round. I found some really good ones that would take four, so that feels like a score of 8 to me. Then I just found the difference and repeated that. So now, I just need to find accuracy. Using my single strike accuracy formula (and maybe even full attack if you're up to it) it would be helpful to see how high you guys could get your accuracies, assuming the basic AC for a CR 12 Monster. While I know some of you are good optimizers (*cough-cough Scott*) playing around with touch or flat-footed AC won't really work, as I need something general for everything, and there isn't really a good way to incorporate that stuff.
So, how would you rate this build for Single Strike Accuracy?
Level 1, Ninja: Precise Shot
2N2: Vanishing Trick
3N2Arcanist1, Dimensional slide, Deadly AimThis character can turn Invisible as a Swift Action. Invisible characters deny opponents their Dex mods, so they target Flatfooted AC, and they get Sneak Attack Damage automatically. An Arcanist can cast Sorcer/Wizard Cantrips, such as Jolt and Acid Splash: Range Touch Attacks.
So this character only has a BAB of +1, Let's say he has a Dex of 16. But he is targeting opponents' Flatfooted Touch AC.
All right then. Let's take a look. (I'll just use this to test out the scale)
Ninjas get +1d6 sneak attack for 2 levels.
Arcanists with Acid Orb deal 1d3 Damage at Will.
+2 Damage bonus for Deadly Aim.
This means on an ideal attack you get 1d3 + 1d6 + 2 damage. On average that is 6 damage a round.
The average enemy health for a CR 3 creature is 30 Hit Points.
30/6 = 5 turns, which means a score of 7. Pretty good, and fairly accurate if you consider the other stuff.
Only if you hit every time.
Deadly aim reduces your attack by 1, and your BAB is already 1, so your effective BAB at level 3 is 0. You're not gonna hit every time.
/cevah
It does, but you are making Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC. I think that usually more than offsets. Meanwhile, that BAB will start to catch up with the other characters'.Only if you hit every time.
Deadly aim reduces your attack by 1, and your BAB is already 1, so your effective BAB at level 3 is 0. You're not gonna hit every time.
Really? Deadly Aim pulls a 3/4 BAB class down to a 1/2 BAB class. Your effective BAB at 20th level is +10/+5/+0. A Mage is at +10/+5. Since you are casting a range touch spell, that means you get 1 attack per round at +10.
You are barely keeping up with the mage. You do more combat damage than a mage, but not by much.
EDIT: At level 20, damage from Acid Orb: 1d3+9d6+8=41.5 vs. a CR 20 critter, when you get sneak attack, and 1d3+8=10 when not.
/cevah