Can a character retrain weapon proficiency feats gained as class features -- like Simple Weapon Proficiency - All or Martial Weapon Proficiency - All? Or even the various armor proficiencies?
No. Those things aren't actually feats that are gained, so you can't exchange them for anything. Feats that can be retrained are feats that are actually selected using the feats given by advancement.
EDIT: Link for support.
Fighter: Can I learn a new fighter bonus feat in place of one of my armor proficiency feats?
No. Despite wording in the Armor Proficiency feats, fighters (and other classes) have a class ability that grants proficiency in those armors--it doesn't actually grant those specific feats. Therefore, the fighter's ability to learn a new feat in place of another feat does not apply to these proficiencies.
No. Those things aren't actually feats that are gained, so you can't exchange them for anything. Feats that can be retrained are feats that are actually selected using the feats given by advancement.
EDIT: Link for support.
Fighter: Can I learn a new fighter bonus feat in place of one of my armor proficiency feats?
No. Despite wording in the Armor Proficiency feats, fighters (and other classes) have a class ability that grants proficiency in those armors--it doesn't actually grant those specific feats. Therefore, the fighter's ability to learn a new feat in place of another feat does not apply to these proficiencies.
What about retraining through Ultimate Campaign?
The important takeaway isn't that Fighters can't retrain using the Fighter Bonus Feat class ability. The takeaway is that proficiencies gained via class ability aren't actually feats.
You can't use feat retraining abilities to retrain things that aren't feats.
What about retraining through Ultimate Campaign?
Starting proficiencies can not be retrained. They are not feats, and they aren't a class feature with a choice. Retraining only applies to things you have a choice in gaining - starting proficiencies give no choice.
The important takeaway isn't that Fighters can't retrain using the Fighter Bonus Feat class ability. The takeaway is that proficiencies gained via class ability aren't actually feats.
You can't use feat retraining abilities to retrain things that aren't feats.
Ok, understandable. Although I wasn't specifically referring to just the fighters retraining ability, but also retraining from ultimate campaign. But Jeraa explained it well.
Can a character retrain weapon proficiency feats gained as class features -- like Simple Weapon Proficiency - All or Martial Weapon Proficiency - All? Or even the various armor proficiencies?
Well if he could... then what would be the point of proficiencies?
I A character only had proficiencies with simple weapons, but reallly wanted to use a greatsword, then allowing this type of retraining would just be arbitrary to classes in whole.
The point would be that if you had a character who never uses martial weapons (for roleplaying purposes) but his class gave both simple and martial weaopns, he could retrain that into using a single exotic weapon and keep simple weapons only, for instance.
Same thing applies to Armor Proficiencies.
The point would be that if you had a character who never uses martial weapons (for roleplaying purposes) but his class gave both simple and martial weaopns, he could retrain that into using a single exotic weapon and keep simple weapons only, for instance.
Same thing applies to Armor Proficiencies.
Talking to your GM, sounds like the best option.
Or depending on the class or race, you can gain proficiency with whatever weapon you want.
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The point would be that if you had a character who never uses martial weapons (for roleplaying purposes) but his class gave both simple and martial weaopns, he could retrain that into using a single exotic weapon and keep simple weapons only, for instance.
Same thing applies to Armor Proficiencies.
It would be super broken as each Martial Weapon is its own feat for proficiency - so all martial characters would be able to retrain away a couple dozen of them that they never use for pretty much every desirable feat in the game.
If you really want a trade off I suggest finding an archetype that trades out the starting proficiencies.
The point would be that if you had a character who never uses martial weapons (for roleplaying purposes) but his class gave both simple and martial weaopns, he could retrain that into using a single exotic weapon and keep simple weapons only, for instance.
Same thing applies to Armor Proficiencies.
As mentioned, doing this with martial weapons would be horrible, as each weapon is its own proficiency. I also wouldn't let this fly with armour proficiencies, either.
Archetypes are what you want to look for. Or possibly another class. And if all else fails, classes that have all martial weapons usually have full BAB, qualifying them to use their first level feat for an exotic weapon. You're lagging behind..well, that's the price you pay to figure out that bastard sword when all the other warriors were fine with longswords.
The point would be that if you had a character who never uses martial weapons (for roleplaying purposes) but his class gave both simple and martial weaopns, he could retrain that into using a single exotic weapon and keep simple weapons only, for instance.
Same thing applies to Armor Proficiencies.
As mentioned, doing this with martial weapons would be horrible, as each weapon is its own proficiency. I also wouldn't let this fly with armour proficiencies, either.
Archetypes are what you want to look for. Or possibly another class. And if all else fails, classes that have all martial weapons usually have full BAB, qualifying them to use their first level feat for an exotic weapon. You're lagging behind..well, that's the price you pay to figure out that bastard sword when all the other warriors were fine with longswords.
I wouldn't have let this play out like this either. I was thinking that due to the class feature being a single item "martial weapons - all", then it would be exchanged for 1 exotic weapon feat, not multiple feats.
I wouldn't have let this play out like this either. I was thinking that due to the class feature being a single item "martial weapons - all", then it would be exchanged for 1 exotic weapon feat, not multiple feats.
I can see how tempting it is to do this exchange, although now I wonder if it's a terrible idea in and of itself to give up that flexibility; if you're hunting for exotic weapons, you're probably using it, and losing out on many viable spare weapon options can be crippling. Still, depending on the exotic you want, there are other ways to get your shaking hands around those hilts.