Overrun as Part of a Charge


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What are the restrictions and allowances when making an overrun as part of a charge in Pathfinder?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A Brief History on trying to get an Overrun with Charge FAQ

A number of years ago we thought we were going to get a ruling on this based on this Forum Thread and a post by Jason (Developer). For whatever reason it didn't happen. Recently I posted to Mark (Developer) and since the thread is marked as answered in the FAQ (likely an honest error - curse you errant mouse clicks!!!) it seems to have stalled things out and threads marked as such no longer show up on the FAQ radar. Mark suggested I try starting a new thread to see if there's enough momentum to get enough FAQ clicks to get it on his list, so here I we are.

Moving Forward

I'll be including some items in a post to follow that I think are germaine to the discussion and a couple possible answers to the question. Feel free to include your own in the thread along with your preference for the answer, BUT I'd prefer the thread not become a back and forth discussion/argument on the question. This has been done multiple times before with it being clear there are multiple possibilities.

And last, please click the FAQ on the initial post if you want this answered by the Devs or want to take pity on this ole dwarf. (50+ clicks probably needed to get us there)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

3.X Overrun History

3.0-Overrun is made as part of move portion of a charge. Must move 10ft before overrun and opponent may avoid or block. If opponent blocks you attempt a trip. If the trip is successful you may continue the charge as normal.

GDL7DM Commentary - This looks to essentially allow you to do what is outlined in the Charge Through Feat in Pathfinder except you make an overrun attempt instead of a trip.

3.5-Not an Option. Standard action during a move only.

3.75-Has a single line allowing you to overrun as part of a charge and then mostly uses language from 3.5's overrun.

GDL7DM Commentary - So the question becomes was the intent to combine the 3.0 and 3.5 options? If so this would make the Charge Through feat null and void. Or is this trying to make it similar to Pathfinder's Bullrush.

Some Good Candidates

Overrun operates similar to Bullrush. The charge is merely to give a bonus to your overrun attempt and to allow a double move. You may move double your movement in a straight line intersecting the target of your overrun. Numerical bonuses and penalties of the charge are as normal. There is no target of your charge.

Overrun is a combination of the 3.0 and 3.5 options to allow a character to attempt to overrun a mook in order to attack the BBEG. The charge is setup per rules for the charge with the allowance of ignoring one interposing enemy. This enemy will become the target of your overrun. As normal you're limited to moving a distance double your movement and get the +2 bonus of the Charge along with the -2 to your AC.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Overrun in general is a massively confused subsection.

Most parts have table variance.

Some GM's think Charge Through is a useless feat because you can already do what it can do.

Some GM's think you can charge to attack and overrun before you make the attack.

Some GM's think you can charge for an overrun and the overrun is the attack you get +2 to resolve.

No one seems to know exactly how Elephant Stomp works with a charge with overrun.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gullyble Dwarf - Lvl 7 DM wrote:

3.X Overrun History

3.0-Overrun is made as part of move portion of a charge. Must move 10ft before overrun and opponent may avoid or block. If opponent blocks you attempt a trip. If the trip is successful you may continue the charge as normal.

GDL7DM Commentary - This looks to essentially allow you to do what is outlined in the Charge Through Feat in Pathfinder except you make an overrun attempt instead of a trip.

3.5-Initially had the same wording used in Pathfinder (ie one line stating overrun can be done as part of a charge. Later this was errata'd that Overrun could not be done as part of a charge and that line was removed. Final version - Standard action during a move only.

3.75-Matches pre-errata 3.5, ie has a single line allowing you to overrun as part of a charge.

GDL7DM Commentary - So the question becomes was 3.5 intent to allow the option of 3.0 to charge thru an opponent and make an attack against the BBEG behind with Overrun replacing the trip attack? If so this would make the Charge Through feat null and void. 2nd question would be why was this option errata'd out. Did D&D not initially intend for this to be an option or was it determined to be too powerful (no idea how this could be the case) or other reason?

Some Good Candidates

Overrun operates similar to Bullrush. The charge is merely to give a bonus to your overrun attempt and to allow a double move. You may move double your movement in a straight line intersecting the target of your overrun. Numerical bonuses and penalties of the charge are as normal. There is no target of your charge.

Overrun allows a character to attempt to overrun a mook in order to attack the BBEG. The charge is setup per rules for the charge with the allowance of ignoring one interposing enemy. This enemy will become the target of your overrun. As normal you're limited to moving a distance double your movement and get the +2 bonus of the Charge along with the -2 to your AC.

I looked through my old 3.5 errata and found that using Overrun as part of a charge was actually removed from 3.5 (Yes, I'm still playing 3.5 w/a group of friends in a campaign going on well over 5 years, probably 10). I updated the Overrun history above to reflect that information. Not the kind of turn I was expecting, but anyhow.

I guess I'd like to see overruning as part of a charge remaining and replacing the Charge Through feat. I think this doesn't make Overrun overpowered and actually can make it dangerous and a thing to be done selectively, but yet keeps it useful for some limited circumstances.

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