Help me eliminate Dexterity

[Tacticslion]

Hello, all!

So, I'm daring to dream the impossible dream: to eliminate dexterity.

Yes, I know there are better dump stats. I'm not interested in that advice (despite the fact that several people will, oft enough without looking at this post, likely tell me to find a different dump stat).

Yes, I know that with an actual lack of a dexterity score, I'll be unable to move. I'm not going to cease having an actual dexterity score.

Instead, I've got a black blood oracle (outer rifts mystery) with a 10 in dexterity. I want better: initiative, saves, skills (notably Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, but later, hopefully Acrobatics and Fly too), AC, CMD, ranged attacks, and so on.

Highest stat is CHA at 18, followed by INT at 16, then STR/CON at 14. WIS is also 10.

I know some of the tricks to get a few of these things, but I'm curious if there are other ways, or just what this awesome community can come up with.

Please bear in mind that I will run all of these by the GM before putting them into play. Hence, these are suggestions.

It's supposed to be a high powered game (in fact, it's a gestalt/godly game netting me vivisectionist alchemist and ranger levels as well). No I'm not über optimized, nor do I plan on being, outside of hopefully replacing my reliance on Dexterity.

Thanks!

[Imbicatus]

Heavy Armor for AC. Or change your mystery to Lore, Nature, or Lunar for CHA to AC(and reflex or CMD) instead of DEX.

Noble Scion for CHA to initiative.

Irorian Paladin for CHA to AC up to class level. Also Paladin bonus to saves.

Belt of Mighty Hurling for STR on ranged attacks.

[Yolp the Mighty]

A very handy document here details ways you can replace certain aspects of Dexterity with other scores.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o91Z-s0R7Vf2Ujj1lFqGC5W--9JOyU0I6uC9XRI R5to/edit?pli=1#

Most notable are replacing AC and Reflex/CMD with your Cha modifier, but that requires choosing a different oracle mystery then the one you already have.

[Tacticslion]

There are feats that allow me to get around that. Thanks, and carry on!

[Wasum]

feats to get CHA to AC?

[Tacticslion]

Wasum wrote:

feats to get CHA to AC?

To allow me to choose mysteries from a different bloodline. They are third party, but available on the d20pfsrd. See Strange Revelation (if I recall), if you're curious.

[Tacticslion]

Arg. "Mystery" as in, "to choose from a different mystery" not, "bloodline". Sorry.

[Jon Otaguro 428]

If your campaign will continue at level 20, then deific obedience to calistria will give CHA to AC.

[Tacticslion]

Hm... okay, now THAT is interesting and something I didn't know. More details?

[gnoams]

A few other ways:
The nature spirit for shaman has a similar ability to the Oracle, use your charisma instead of dexterity for AC and CMD. There's a spell in the ARG for undines (druid 1 witch 1) that gives you charisma as a deflection bonus for rounds/level. There's an irori trait that lets you use wisdom for a skill instead of str, dex, or con.
A mystery cultist of arshea gets cha as an armor bonus, but thats not til level 12 or so.

[Imbicatus]

Tacticslion wrote:

Hm... okay, now THAT is interesting and something I didn't know. More details?

The Third Deific Obedience Boon for Calistria in Inner Sea Gods gives CHA to AC.

There is a similar boon for Arshea in Chronicles of the Righteous.

[lemeres]

Imbicatus wrote:

Heavy Armor for AC. Or change your mystery to Lore, Nature, or Lunar for CHA to AC(and reflex or CMD) instead of DEX.

Noble Scion for CHA to initiative.

Irorian Paladin for CHA to AC up to class level. Also Paladin bonus to saves.

Belt of Mighty Hurling for STR on ranged attacks.

Irorian is interesting, since it adds CHA to your DEX bonus. But nothing necesarily means you have to even have a DEX bonus. Thus, CHA would technically replace it in that case (also, with CHA to save, it can do the same thing to reflex).

Of course, Irorians can only do the add CHA to DEX thing when they are in light or no armor. So not doubling up isn't entirely to your advantage early on (Since again, it only converts 1 CHA modifier per level; caps fairly early, often by level 6 with the highest starting CHA and a +2 headband, but that still doesn't help you 1st level)

[Jon Otaguro 428]

Arshea's bonus is armor, while calistria is untyped and works vs touch attacks. Though you can get Arshea's bonus at level 12.

[Tacticslion]

Hm. Arshea and Calistria can both work for my character. Irori... not so much (as she's Chaotic, currently neutral, but probably working her way 'up'... probably. I'm sure making an semi-sealed infernal bargain to corrupt a priest of an unknown god and kill him thereafter doesn't put a ding on my alignment. Nope. Not. At. All. I mean, I might not kill the guy. OR corrupt him. Maybe. And maybe he's already corrupt! :)

Anyway, I'm already the oracle that I am, so changing classes isn't really likely. :)

EDIT: Also, any idea how to access the Obediences? I'm only lightly familiar with them at present.

[Imbicatus]

You have to worship the god, and take the Deific or Celestial obedience feat. Deific has a pre-req of three ranks in Know:Religion, and Celestial had a pre-req of three ranks in Know:Planes.

Then you have to spend an hour long ritual each day (that can be done at the same time as you prepare/recharge spells) doing the thing that your god wants.

[gnoams]

Mystery cultist, exalted, or evangelist are all prestige classes which give you early access to the obedience abilities. You normally get them at level 12, 16 and 20. And you access them with the feat divine obedience.

[Tacticslion]

Cool. Thanks! :D

EDIT: I'm still interested in more ideas! :)

[Mudfoot]

Versatile Performance (Dance) gives you Acrobatics and Fly, if you can gestalt to bard as well...

[Kazaan]

I'll do you one better and give you a way to dump Dex, Wis, and Int.

- Paladin 2 gives Divine Grace which gives Cha to saves (but on top of normal stat penalty if you dump Dex and Wis.
- Oracle 1 will give Cha to AC and Reflex if you go for Lore (Sidestep Secret) or Lunar (Prophetic Armor), or Cha to AC and CMD if you go for Nature (Nature's Whispers). Keep in mind that Lore or Lunar will come up short for CMD since it's still based on Dex while Nature will come up short for Reflex. Also, Sidestep Secret is SU so it shuts off in anti-magic while the other two are EX so they function even if magic is turned off. I prefer Nature's since you have Reflex covered by Paladin.
- Bard 2 gives Versatile Performance: Dance to replace two Dex-based skills with a Cha-based skill.
- Bard 4 gives Pageant of the Peacock in trade for a lvl 2 spell slot. It lets you replace all Int skills (as well as raw Int checks) with Bluff; a Cha skill. Knowledge? Fake it. Appraisal? Fake it. Linguistics? Fake it. Spellcraft? Fake it.
- Undine w/ Witch 1 -or- Druid 1 gives you Nereid's Grace which gives Cha as deflection bonus if not wearing armor (or if armor is invisible)
- Scion of War gives Cha in place of Dex for initiative.

[Tacticslion]

Thanks!

[Kazaan]

I also remember someone mentioning a feat from somewhere; something called Love of Life (or something along those lines). It has a prereq that you must be in one of the older age categories and lets you use Cha for HP in place of Con. But I forget where they said it was from and I've never found it (probably because I got the name wrong).