Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe
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From an older (November 19, 2013) version of the additional ressources:
Investigator: An investigator is treated as an alchemist for the purpose of creating alchemical items and poisons.
That quote is no longer in the newest version of them. i don't know if that is an intentional change or an oversight.
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Id agree. Nosig, archetypes of alchemists are still alchemists so you are in the clear.
As of the last printing of the ACG playtest, advanced classes were NOT automatically counted as their "base" classes, except where specifically stated (e.g. swashbucklers counting as fighter for bonus feats).
If the AR distinction was removed, then I assume that it was delibrate (although being an accident wouldnt be the first time). Until clarification or next August comes, I would err in the side of caution and not craft as an Investigator.
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Ah! now I see. an Investigator is a Rogue Archetype! (I was thinking it was an Alchemist archetype!)
The Investigator they were talking about is the new hybrid base class that's coming out in the Advanced Class Guide at GenCon (only playtest document now).
It takes a bit of this and a bit of that from a couple of classes to create one new stand alone class.
The bonus to Craft (Alchemy) is given in the Alchemist class description, not in the skill rules. As I recall, the Investigator class description in the playtest rules had no such provision, so as of now the Investigator gets no such bonus from his class. I would be very surprised to see this FAQ answered with anything other than "No reply necessary".
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe
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The bonus to Craft (Alchemy) is given in the Alchemist class description, not in the skill rules. As I recall, the Investigator class description in the playtest rules had no such provision, so as of now the Investigator gets no such bonus from his class. I would be very surprised to see this FAQ answered with anything other than "No reply necessary".
the Investigator gets the same bonuses to alchemy as the Alchemist
When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical
item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal
to his class level on the skill check. In addition an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as
if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round
to make such a check.
The bonus to Craft (Alchemy) is given in the Alchemist class description, not in the skill rules. As I recall, the Investigator class description in the playtest rules had no such provision, so as of now the Investigator gets no such bonus from his class. I would be very surprised to see this FAQ answered with anything other than "No reply necessary".
the Investigator gets the same bonuses to alchemy as the Alchemist
When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical
item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal
to his class level on the skill check. In addition an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as
if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round
to make such a check.
Ah -- I was assuming that it wasn't there because of the fact that the question was raised. Did this change between revisions perhaps? Anyway, the answer now seems to be that the Investigator does not get the Alechmist's bonus to Craft (Alchemy) checks -- he gets something considerably better! Unless I am mistaken, the Alchemist's bonus is only half his level.
Of course, since you cannot craft in PFS, I guess you have a bit of a wait to see what PFS replaces that ability with. The most logical replacement would be whatever PFS replaces the corresponding Alchemist ability with.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe
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Alchemist get the same ability:
When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an alchemist gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, an alchemist can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check.
Alchemist get the ability to craft alchemical items:
Alchemists can use the Craft (alchemy) skill to produce items with their Alchemy ability. Follow the Craft rules on pages 91–93 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook as well as in the alchemist’s Alchemy ability description.
An earlier version of the additional resources said that investigators should be treated as alchemists for the purpose of crafting alchemical stuff. That ruling is missing in the newest version.
So the question I and other people playing investigators want to get answered:
Is that an intentional change and are investigators no longer allowed to craft alchemical stuff?
And in case that is an intentional change:
What happens to stuff i already crafted? Can i keep it, do i have to pay the difference to full price, does it get deleted?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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If there is a version of the ACG that came out between 12/9 and today, can someone link it? Thanks.
N N 959 you are quoting the ACG playtest document. The person you quoted is quoting a previous version of the additional resources document. Those are two different documents.
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Resurrecting this thread, as I'm reworking a GM credit character for a con in a couple of weeks, and I'm thinking of changing him from a Cryptbreaker Alchemist into an Investigator, because it fits the original concept better. So, any new thoughts, or any link to anything official for PFS as to the following:
1) Can an Investigator craft Alchemical Items and Poisons like an Alchemist in PFS?
2) Can an Investigator purchase Poisons like an Alchemist, Ninja, or Poisoner Rogue in PFS?
For question 2, the Investigator's ability is called Poison Lore, not Poison Use, so it is not readily apparent whether or not it qualifies them to be able to purchase poisons in PFS, though a strict reading would say no. I'm hoping common sense might prevail, as it's based on the Alchemist's Poison Use ability and provides much the same mechanical benefit. The Investigator's Poison Lore ability actually goes beyond what the Alchemist's Poison Use ability provides.
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Poisons in general are too expensive to use every attack, or too underpowered to use effectively every once in a while. But there are some (expensive) ones in the Rival Guide, which are in fact PFS legal and provide better effects (if still being too expensive and with a low DC).
The best of that bunch, because of the higher DC, is probably Hag Spit: DC16 injury or ingested Initial Effect: blindness for 1d10 rounds Secondary Effect: 1d4 Wis Damage Frequency: 1/round for 6 rounds. Cure: 2 saves Cost:1,500 gp
1,500 is a lot for a DC 16 item, but 750 (or would it be 500 for crafting?) would make somewhat more sense. Again, not for every attack, but to hit the odd low fort spell caster with, maybe.
There's also the Rainbow Jellyfish Toxin, at 500gp, which can stagger and possibly paralyze on a DC 14. Again, not great, but if allowed to craft, at 250gp (or 167gp if poisons are 1/3 cost like alchemical items) it's a potential encounter ender on a low fort opponent.
The answers to the two questions won't affect my decision on whether to rebuild as an Investigator, but they'd be nice to know, since poisons and crafting alchemical items are a big part of their class abilities. I realized I hadn't FAQ'ed the original post, so I've done so now.
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No, they get the ability to analyze poisons in addition to the ability to use them. Read the first two sentences under Poison Lore again.
Poison Lore (Ex): An investigator has a deep understanding and appreciation for poisons. Starting at 2nd level, he cannot accidentally poison himself when applying poison to a weapon.
Whether or not that qualifies as Poison Use with regards to the Additional Resources to allow the purchase of poisons is the question, but as written, the Investigator class can absolutely safely use poisons, even if they aren't allowed to buy them without them being on a chronicle.
Currently even Ninja can't craft poisons in PFS.
-j