I would say yes, as technically, your GM PC hasn't been created yet.
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Per the Guide...
"When you choose to take a chronicle sheet for GM credit, you must decide which of your characters receives the chronicle sheet when you fill out the tracking sheet for that table. You must apply chronicle sheets in the order they are received."
That would seem to indicate you could not since the boon chronicle was received after the session chronicles. However...
"...you do not need to build the character until you actually play it."
Which would give you the needed exception. So, yes, go ahead.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
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So, this is where the problem is coming into play:
"You must apply chronicle sheets in the order they are received."
A race boon needs to be applied as the first chronicle sheet for a character, so it's impossible to apply it correctly in order to a character that has received more than 3 xp at the point that you receive the race boon. While there has been an official clarification that you can use a race boon in a rebuild as long as you are at the 3 xp or under, it gets a bit murky if you have to apply them in order and have that chronicle properly applied as the first chronicle sheet with a character that has already earned xp beyond that point. It's not possible to follow both guidelines.
We're mostly looking for official clarification on how all of these exceptions and specifications interact.
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So, this is where the problem is coming into play:
"You must apply chronicle sheets in the order they are received."
A race boon needs to be applied as the first chronicle sheet for a character, so it's impossible to apply it correctly in order to a character that has received more than 3 xp at the point that you receive the race boon. While there has been an official clarification that you can use a race boon in a rebuild as long as you are at the 3 xp or under, it gets a bit murky if you have to apply them in order and have that chronicle properly applied as the first chronicle sheet with a character that has already earned xp beyond that point. It's not possible to follow both guidelines.
We're mostly looking for official clarification on how all of these exceptions and specifications interact.
I was under the impression that there HAD been a clarification that you could indeed apply a race boon up until the first time the character is played past first level. Searching the forum, however, only got me another thread full of people saying they thought there was a clarification but they couldn't remember where. Which leads us precisely nowhere.
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I was under the impression that there HAD been a clarification that you could indeed apply a race boon up until the first time the character is played past first level. Searching the forum, however, only got me another thread full of people saying they thought there was a clarification but they couldn't remember where. Which leads us precisely nowhere.
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Blood! Death! Vengeance!
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I was under the impression that there HAD been a clarification that you could indeed apply a race boon up until the first time the character is played past first level. Searching the forum, however, only got me another thread full of people saying they thought there was a clarification but they couldn't remember where. Which leads us precisely nowhere.You mean this one?
Brilliant! Cheers.
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That is the clarification that i was referring to. it does not say the first time a character is played past first level, it says a character with 3 xp or less. this is what is causing the specific question - if i have 27 chronicles worth of GM credit on an amorphous blob who has not yet been played, and i then receive a race boon, i still, by the rules listed in the guide, have to apply the chronicle that grants that race boon in the order it was received. however, as the chronicle has to be the first in a stack to be valid, both cannot be true. the clarification that i already mentioned and was linked does not apply to the situation, as the amorphous blob in question already has much more than the 3 xp explicitly stated in mike's post.
there are four rules items that are interacting in a confusing manner, and just looking for an official clarification on the matter, as it involves a non-hypothetical case.
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You mean this one?
If someone has a race boon, and 3 or less XPs, then they may use the race boon in the rebuild.
I'm not sure this is exactly what we are talking about in this case. Keep in mind this was posted prior to the release of v5.0 of the Guide and I'm not sure if the language changed. The quote I listed above, "...you do not need to build the character until you actually play it," from the Guide seems to create an exception to the general rule. The various threads that involve racial boons seems to indicate they are treated a bit differently than standard scenario boons and there is at least one occurrence where it can be applied out of chronological order. At this point, I am not 100% confident what it the "right" answer, but I typically try to rule in favor of inclusion on issues like this. I don't see a problem with applying a racial boon to a PC, assuming (1) it has never actually played a session (all GM credit), and (2) all the standard chronicles are applied in order. I honestly don't see this as a way to "cheat" and would sign-off on it for a player/GM. At least until such time it is clarified by campaign leadership.
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My ifrit boon says "This Chronicle sheet must be the first Chronicle sheet for the given character..."
Correct, and most do. That is not the issue. Normally, you must apply your chronicles in order of receiving them. However, there is at least one exception listed in the guide/posted by Brock that allows you to apply a racial boon received after applying regular scenario boons. The topic is whether or not the exception would apply to the OP's situation.
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yeah, and therein lies part of the confusion. i wouldn't have a problem with it coming out the most beneficial way, either, but the way i'm reading it, the character not having to be statted out is fine, but chronicles still need to be applied in the order received, so it messes with the most specific case (if we're looking at the adage of specific trumps general) of the text on the race boon, with the exception of using the rebuild rules for characters with 3 or less xp. also note that there's no differentiation between what is a "standard" or "non-standard" chronicle. boons come on chronicles. even if you didn't get it from playing a scenario, it's still a chronicle. it could be that the intent is that special snowflake characters need to be played/credited starting at first or (barely) second level. i'd be fine with that as well, but it's not something i'm going to make a call on one way or another until there's an actual clarification.
Unless I hear different from John or Mike, I am going to continue to work on the approach that if the GM PC hasn't been played (or hasn't been played at 2nd level or higher), then the racial boon can be applied.
What is more inclusive or fun? Letting a GM, who finally get's to play, play a fun character with a boon that was likely received as a reward for GMing would seem to be the option of making things more fun. Or telling a GM that has run games for Paizo and gotten a boon, that they have to run more games to be able to use the boon.
From what I have seen of Paizo, I have a pretty good idea on which way they work - towards the more fun approach. And I suspect it would be the approach that would encourage more people to GM.
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Folks, the "1st-level rebuild" has been clarified to be for any character that hasn't been played beyond first level.
Also, GM credit babies don't need to be "built" until such time as they are played.
Either rule lets you insert the race boon into the stack as "Chronicle #0."
You can mince words all you want, we all know that's what these policies add up to, and there's no need for an official clarification.
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It is interesting that one person says there is no need for an official clarification because it is clear the OP CANNOT do it, while another person also says no clarification required, but that is is clear he CAN. The only thing that seems to be CLEAR that there is some ambiguity and an official clarification IS warranted.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Applying my standard test of, "which of these is more fun and will result in a better play experience?", it seems to me that using the race boon should be fine.
Of course, if there were a specific rule disallowing this, that would be one thing. But in the case of ambiguity, I always try to lean toward whatever is most beneficial for the player, unless it would be disruptive.
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So the situation is vague, it's not the first time something like that has come up in PFS.
Is there any particular reason a GM using their hard earned GM credits on a race boon that was earned after the credits in this kind of situation? I cant think of any. How about you?
Assuming you cant, how about we just let the GMs have some fun the way they want, since this is far from gamebreaking, and let them apply the race boon unless Mike or John say otherwise?
I dont think thats too much to ask.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Seth, what question are you asking in your second paragraph?
The only problem I can see with "Let them play this character, applying a new race boon after the character has gotten credit for scenarios, until Mike or John says otherwise," is "What happens then?"
Let's say that Todd designs a halfling rogue, and plays her for two scenarios. He revises the character to be a sneaky Inquisitor, but has not subsequently gotten a chance to play her. Then Todd applies a lot of GM credits, and the character is ready to play at 4th level. Now, he gets an Undine race boon, and add that in to the equation, which he would certainly be allowed to do if that boon came in before the GM credits. And he brings the 4th-level Undine Inquisitor to a couple of tables, where she gets enough experience to reach 5th level.
Then Mike rules "You can't do that."
And then what? Todd loses the GM credit on the character, and she drops back to 2nd level? Or he can't apply the race boon, and she reverts to being a halfling?
That would be a mess. Honestly, I don't know how often something like this would be brought to my attention as a GM, but without clarification, I wouldn't allow it at my table.
I am in favor of an official ruling from the campaign staff, as soon as possible.
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Seth, what question are you asking in your second paragraph?
The only problem I can see with "Let them play this character, applying a new race boon after the character has gotten credit for scenarios, until Mike or John says otherwise," is "What happens then?"
Let's say that Todd designs a halfling rogue, and plays her for two scenarios. He revises the character to be a sneaky Inquisitor, but has not subsequently gotten a chance to play her. Then Todd applies a lot of GM credits, and the character is ready to play at 4th level. Now, he gets an Undine race boon, and add that in to the equation, which he would certainly be allowed to do if that boon came in before the GM credits. And he brings the 4th-level Undine Inquisitor to a couple of tables, where she gets enough experience to reach 5th level.
Then Mike rules "You can't do that."
And then what? Todd loses the GM credit on the character, and she drops back to 2nd level? Or he can't apply the race boon, and she reverts to being a halfling?
That would be a mess. Honestly, I don't know how often something like this would be brought to my attention as a GM, but without clarification, I wouldn't allow it at my table.
I am in favor of an official ruling from the campaign staff, as soon as possible.
Then he rebuilds the character as a non-boon race and is done. Doesnt sound to messy to me.
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Seth, what question are you asking in your second paragraph?
The only problem I can see with "Let them play this character, applying a new race boon after the character has gotten credit for scenarios, until Mike or John says otherwise," is "What happens then?"
Let's say that Todd designs a halfling rogue, and plays her for two scenarios. He revises the character to be a sneaky Inquisitor, but has not subsequently gotten a chance to play her. Then Todd applies a lot of GM credits, and the character is ready to play at 4th level. Now, he gets an Undine race boon, and add that in to the equation, which he would certainly be allowed to do if that boon came in before the GM credits. And he brings the 4th-level Undine Inquisitor to a couple of tables, where she gets enough experience to reach 5th level.
Then Mike rules "You can't do that."
And then what? Todd loses the GM credit on the character, and she drops back to 2nd level? Or he can't apply the race boon, and she reverts to being a halfling?
That would be a mess. Honestly, I don't know how often something like this would be brought to my attention as a GM, but without clarification, I wouldn't allow it at my table.
I am in favor of an official ruling from the campaign staff, as soon as possible.
But ... not allowing it at your table would actually be the cause of the problem.
And if I understand you, you'd be disallowing it because some other GM might do the same.
I don't understand why you would want to do that.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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We have three relevant guidelines/clarifications from campaign staff.
- Rebuilds are allowed at any time until a character is played at second level or higher
- Race boons can be applied as part of a rebuild
- The rules don't cover every corner case; GMs are supposed to use common sense when enforcing rules.
I've got a GM credit baby with 6XP. I've also got an Ifrit race boon. If that had been an Oread, not an Ifrit, I would almost certainly have built a 3rd-level character - I've got a concept I'd like to try out. But I'm sure I earned some of those GM credits prior to receiving the race boon.
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As john said there are 3 relevant clarifications, also the line of text that Bob quoted from the guide.
Because of those things I wholly believed the ifrit boon could be added, and answered that way to one of our GMs. After talking with Mat, I agreed it was a grey area, and asked here.
I firmly believe that it SHOULD work as Bob, Patrick, and many others have mentioned, but I'm not confidant it DOES. I'm asking for a clarification because I think it's a separate enough issue to warrant one.