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Nothing in the rules seem to indicate that you can't sunder a reach weapon. When you ready an action to do a sunder attempt on a reach weapon, then your action either triggers just before the action that would trigger your action OR your readied action interrupts the other characters action(s). Technically speaking as you can't attack something outside your threatened areas the readied action would occur as soon as the reach weapon enters your threatened area (meaning your sunder interrupts the swing of the attack). Then it does get iffy because the reach guy gets an immediate attack of opportunity that takes place before the attack he is in the process of making and before the sunder attempt takes effect. Weird I know, but that is how it works by RAW.
Thats why I asked for ohters opinion because by RAW it works one way while seems like it should work differently.
I think the character would have to have the Strike Back Feat. It kind of flies in the face of common sense but since the feat exists, it sounds like you can't do anything to affect limbs or weapons of foes that attack you using reach.
Yeah. I'd guess they did it for game balance but it's one of those things where game mechanics don't seem to reflect reality very well.
On the plus side, if your character has a reach weapon the enemy can't do it to you either, at least not until they get the feat.
I think the character would have to have the Strike Back Feat. It kind of flies in the face of common sense but since the feat exists, it sounds like you can't do anything to affect limbs or weapons of foes that attack you using reach.
You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.
This lets you attack someone out of your reach. The OP is asking about attacking the weapon used to hit you. Not the same thing.
Well... Don't know where that feat is from.
CRB p135
/cevah
Thats why I asked for ohters opinion because by RAW it works one way while seems like it should work differently.Nothing in the rules seem to indicate that you can't sunder a reach weapon. When you ready an action to do a sunder attempt on a reach weapon, then your action either triggers just before the action that would trigger your action OR your readied action interrupts the other characters action(s). Technically speaking as you can't attack something outside your threatened areas the readied action would occur as soon as the reach weapon enters your threatened area (meaning your sunder interrupts the swing of the attack). Then it does get iffy because the reach guy gets an immediate attack of opportunity that takes place before the attack he is in the process of making and before the sunder attempt takes effect. Weird I know, but that is how it works by RAW.
Welcome to the world of combat simulation. Since it is a simplified simulation, you get these things happening.
/cevah
You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.
This lets you attack someone out of your reach. The OP is asking about attacking the weapon used to hit you. Not the same thing.
The OP was asking about readying an action to sunder a reach weapon.
The Strike Back feat doesn't allow you to attack someone out of your reach, it allows you to "strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you."
To me that sounds like exactly the same thing as he was asking.
You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.
This lets you attack someone out of your reach. The OP is asking about attacking the weapon used to hit you. Not the same thing.
The OP was asking about readying an action to sunder a reach weapon.
The Strike Back feat doesn't allow you to attack someone out of your reach, it allows you to "strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you."
To me that sounds like exactly the same thing as he was asking.
You are referring to the fluff, not the actual benefit line. "...make a melee attack against any foe...,even if the foe is outside of your reach." If the feat only lets you do what seems already allowed by the rules, why take it? I think it is closer to the Lunge feat.
/cevah
You are referring to the fluff, not the actual benefit line. "...make a melee attack against any foe...,even if the foe is outside of your reach." If the feat only lets you do what seems already allowed by the rules, why take it? I think it is closer to the Lunge feat./cevah
I don't think the rules allow you to attack a target that is outside your reach.
Lunge does allow you to extend your reach so why would they create another feat that duplicates it? Especially when the prerequisite to take it is almost twice as high.
Lunge extends your reach by 5' but Strike Back allows you to attack creatures with any amount of reach when they attack you.
I don't think the rules allow you to attack a target that is outside your reach.
You are referring to the fluff, not the actual benefit line. "...make a melee attack against any foe...,even if the foe is outside of your reach." If the feat only lets you do what seems already allowed by the rules, why take it? I think it is closer to the Lunge feat./cevah
Specific overrules general. The feat grants the ability.
Lunge does allow you to extend your reach so why would they create another feat that duplicates it? Especially when the prerequisite to take it is almost twice as high.
Lunge extends your reach by 5' but Strike Back allows you to attack creatures with any amount of reach when they attack you.
Lunge imposes a -2 AC penalty to gain reach. Strike Back does not. As to higher BAB requirement, I think hitting a foe outside your normal reach is a good reason.
/cevah
Cevah, I don't understand your argument.
If the attacker is 10' away (outside of your reach) you can't attack him with Strike Back whenever you want.
You can only ready an action to attack him once when he attacks you. This may mean that the attacker is 40' away. A gargantuan creature with a polearm can attack you from that far.
Lunge only extends your reach by 5'. It would not be enough to attack that gargantuan creature.
As to the OP:
Defender readies action.
Attacker declares action.
Defender 5' steps in and declares sunder. (Can't reach so must move)
Attacker gets AoO based on sunder attempt, if possible. (Not getting into hands and armor spikes vs. unarmed strikes here)
Defender attempts sunder if able.
Attacker finish attack routines if able.
So, RAW, there's no way to do this without Strike Back, right? There's no tactical positioning rule that says weapons occupy any squares between reach attacker and defender during an attack. Abstractions, yo.
I don't know if it is fair to say it is just a part of the abstraction. Just because you can reach the strongest, fastest moving part of a weapon for a split second does not mean that you should normally get to make your best attack to sunder it at that exact point in time.
Especially if it is a 20' pole arm being swung by a giant!
Agreed. It's even less likely for a bullwhip, which might only be within reach for a tiny fraction of a second, faster than the eye can follow. Sundering in that kind of situation is exactly what feats are for.