Goblin Squad Member
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Without quoting the Dev Blog directly:
1. You can skill points in real time by paying a subscription or buying a time card.
2. You may then use that skill / time to apply it to the character(s) and skill areas of your choice.
3. With Destiny's Twin you can level two characters for the price of one.
4. There is an opportunity cost of training a skill, over another. Since you can only train one skill at a time, you are only advancing in one area while you train. The only exception is for skills that are passive or attribute / core skills.
5. The Devs have said that mastery of one skill tree could take about 2.5 years.
Could you eventually master all skill trees? Theoretically, yes, but even in EvE online with over 10 years of game time, no one has done it there yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Time based by having a paid account.
You can purchase training time, or just have an active subscription (which is cheaper in the long run).
You pick what skill you want to receive training and boom, the skill slowly accumulates training and eventually you "ding" in that skill. This will happen even when you aren't in the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will gain XP in realtime, as long as you have training time (subscription or goblin balls) applied to that character. New skills will be acquired by both a) visiting a qualified trainer and purchasing the skill with XP (and possibly coin, depending on the settlement) AND b) performing certain feats or achievements related to the skill you are learning.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I haven't seen any thread that has stated how skills are increased (though it is quite possible I missed it). Is it by gaining general experience and placing it in the desired skill, experience granted within a category when practicing that specific type of action, or time based by just gaining them as you have an active account?
Also has anything been said about how much they want one character to be able to do in relation to the entire scope of the game's skill possiblities?
Well per the descriptions, assuming you are paying the training time (Either by having as subscription, buying training time via microtransactions, or buying training time from another player who purchased it via microtransactions), your XP goes up at a set rate. (note there are only going to be 2 speeds your XP can be going up, 100% and 0%, assuming GW keeps their word, no matter how much you pay, your XP gain rate will NEVER go above 100%)
Skills themselves will have pre-requisits involving some in game tasks/merit badges, other skills requirements, attribute pre-reqs (Your attributes go up based on how many skills based on that attribute you have trained) and of course, an amount of XP that must be spent.
As far as the scope of the amount of possibilities one character can upgrade... Well the developers intend about 2.5 years to reach the top abilities of one Role... Now assuming your 2nd class uses the same attributes as your first, one could hypothetically estimate say 10-25% less time for a 2nd role, assuming the same primary attribute, in the case of say barbarian 1st fighter 2nd, or bard 1st sorcerer 2nd) 11 base classes, plus the 3 professions (IE harvesters [commoners], crafters [experts]] and leaders [aristocrat]) odds are long before anyone would have obtained 1/6th of possible abilities we would almost certainly be looking at a timeframe in which the developers will quite likely be rolling out the 8 non-core base classes (keep in mind, I'm talking 5 years after launch here)... so I'd say about 2-10% of total possibilities in the game on any one character as plausible
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You will gain XP in realtime, as long as you have training time (subscription or goblin balls)...
Just had to throw in goblin balls
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Goblin Squad Member
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I haven't seen any thread that has stated how skills are increased (though it is quite possible I missed it). Is it by gaining general experience and placing it in the desired skill, experience granted within a category when practicing that specific type of action, or time based by just gaining them as you have an active account?
Also has anything been said about how much they want one character to be able to do in relation to the entire scope of the game's skill possiblities?
The simple answer is: subscription = xp over time -> buy skills
The advanced answer is: what you can do in the game is determined by your abilities (aka "merit badges" or sometimes feats). Learning abilities requires relevant skills plus in-game actions and maybe other stuff (trainer access, alignment, quests, gold cost?)
The skills cost xp but can also have required stats. It is not clear whether skill training may also be restricted by alignment, alliances etc or if this is only for abilities. The distinction between skills and abilities has become vague in the last months.
Stats are increased by learning skills that boost that stat. Effectively a skill requiring STR=[some number] requires you to have trained a certain number of STR skills or be a strong race.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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We could probably be better about consistency in how we refer to them, but there are three major types of trait:
- Ability Scores are numbers that start at 10 (unless modified by race choice) and increase gradually as you purchase Feats. Many Feats include a prereq of a minimum Ability Score of a certain type to purchase them.
- Badges are pretty much standard game achievements: you do a certain thing (either an unusual thing once or a more common thing a fixed number of times) and get the Badge added to your character. In addition to an Ability Score, you may need prereq Badges to purchase a particular Feat. Role levels are a particular kind of Badge; you unlock Fighter 3 once you have Fighter 2 and a few other requirements, and it's a prereq for Fighter-specific Feats.
- Feats is a catchall term for everything you might buy that directly improves your character. It includes things you slot (attacks, refresh feats, passives, etc.), skills (they're functionally always active, but only get used in specific circumstances, such as stealth or crafting), and permanent upgrades to combat stats (like base attack bonus or Reflex saves). We sometimes refer to these as "abilities" (short for "special abilities") which is probably confusing :) .
You will gain XP over time whenever you're subscribed (or, later, are purchasing XP-earning time in a more modular fashion).
When you go to a trainer you will see all the available training (not all trainers will have advanced training, and trainers can run out of stock in the short term). Individual items will be unavailable to you if you do not meet their prereqs for Ability Score minimum and Badges. Of the training available to you, there will be an XP cost (which is deducted from your available XP) and a coin cost (largely set by the settlement that owns the trainer).
If you have the available XP and coin, you click to train the Feat and it is immediately added to your character.
See the blog for more information.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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On the subject of consistently referring to things, is it "reflex save" or "reflex defense"?
That's another thing I should probably be more consistent in saying :) .
Technically, you have a Reflex (and Fortitude and Will) Save that gets added to your Base Defense (which comes primarily from the Tier of your armor). So I tend to abstract "the number you actually want to roll to hit with an attack that targets Reflex, which is the sum of Reflex Save and Base Defense" as "Reflex Defense." But that's probably not the easiest thing in the world to remember or use consistently.
I'll try to do an informal poll around the office and see whether anyone has strong feelings on what to call it :D .
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Goblin Squad Member
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Technically, you have a Reflex (and Fortitude and Will) Save that gets added to your Base Defense (which comes primarily from the Tier of your armor). So I tend to abstract "the number you actually want to roll to hit with an attack that targets Reflex, which is the sum of Reflex Save and Base Defense" as "Reflex Defense." But that's probably not the easiest thing in the world to remember or use consistently.
I'll try to do an informal poll around the office and see whether anyone has strong feelings on what to call it :D .
Honestly I like what you are doing now. I do think that sitting down and explaining what it means (like you just did) is helpful.
Base defense - simple enough its based on how good your armor is
Reflex/will/fort save - A stat that increases your defense against that type of attack.
Reflex/will/fort defense - the sum of your base defense + save that is used to determine how well you defend against that type of attack.
To increase your reflex defense you either need to train a +1 reflex save or increase your tier of armor.
At least to me it makes perfect sense and the part I like about it is that you know what each part of total defense is from.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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On the subject of consistently referring to things, is it "reflex save" or "reflex defense"?That's another thing I should probably be more consistent in saying :) .
Technically, you have a Reflex (and Fortitude and Will) Save that gets added to your Base Defense (which comes primarily from the Tier of your armor). So I tend to abstract "the number you actually want to roll to hit with an attack that targets Reflex, which is the sum of Reflex Save and Base Defense" as "Reflex Defense." But that's probably not the easiest thing in the world to remember or use consistently.
I'll try to do an informal poll around the office and see whether anyone has strong feelings on what to call it :D .
I could discuss things like this for days on end, but doing so would end up sapping valuable time from valuable people and wouldn't be interesting to very many outsiders.
FWIW, Reflex defense=Base defence + Reflex modifiers sounds good. That would allow for a keyword system that determines stacking: Enhancement modifiers overlap, dodge modifiers stack, &tc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Technically, you have a Reflex (and Fortitude and Will) Save that gets added to your Base Defense (which comes primarily from the Tier of your armor). So I tend to abstract "the number you actually want to roll to hit with an attack that targets Reflex, which is the sum of Reflex Save and Base Defense" as "Reflex Defense." But that's probably not the easiest thing in the world to remember or use consistently.
I'll try to do an informal poll around the office and see whether anyone has strong feelings on what to call it :D .
Honestly I like what you are doing now. I do think that sitting down and explaining what it means (like you just did) is helpful.
Base defense - simple enough its based on how good your armor is
Reflex/will/fort save - A stat that increases your defense against that type of attack.
Reflex/will/fort defense - the sum of your base defense + save that is used to determine how well you defend against that type of attack.To increase your reflex defense you either need to train a +1 reflex save or increase your tier of armor.
At least to me it makes perfect sense and the part I like about it is that you know what each part of total defense is from.
Keep in mind, if I am correct from one of the blogs I read, Your mention of "Want better reflex defense, get +1 to reflex or upgrade armor" isn't necessary correct. The armor isn't always a direct upgrade to the saves, especially reflex that relies on movement that heavier armor restricts. You might have to go down in armor to get a better reflex save. Just like one of the blogs mentioned, lighter armor = better "spell" resistances and heavier armor is better physical resistance. Since most saves are vs spells, I would argue that "to get a better reflex defense, get +1 reflex or lower your armor category."
I could be wrong but that is my understanding. I know it TT, the armor only affects your + dex to AC, not to your saves, but it makes sense to apply it to saves, or at least reflex IMHO.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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In the numerical examples discussed so far, heavy armor applies a smallish penalty to reflex defense but has a much higher physical resistance; you end up significantly better off in heavy armor against someone who is using a physical attack, despite the lower defense value.
That said, it is presumed that heavy armor won't be better in all cases, such as against people who hit you with things that aren't "sticks".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I also assume there will be skill trees that give benefits similar to lightning reflexes, ironwill and great fortitude that will modify the defenses of the character.
I certainly hope so. Years ago, after having a high level fighter charmed by a vampire in Ravenloft and proceeding to lay waste to the squishy party members, I've always tried to ensure that doesn't happen again.
So lets say I start progressing through the fighter skills and then once i'm about half way through I go into the cleric set. Can I then later go back and finish the fighter skills and have access to all the fighter abilities?All class abilities are directly tied to gearslots so for each slot you will have to choose between fighter and cleric.
Do you have a quote for this? I don't believe I have read anything that points at class abilities being tied to gear slots.
I had understood we would only be able to have a certain number of abilities active at a time however
I also assume there will be skill trees that give benefits similar to lightning reflexes, ironwill and great fortitude that will modify the defenses of the character.
Since training up the saves is a specific modular choice, I don't there will be much distinction between normal saves and things like those feats from tabletop. If anything, beyond escalating your saves there would be other specific abilities increasing the effectiveness of your defense, like evasion, or greater ironwill/etc - which would probably end up working like tiers in PFO.
All class abilities are directly tied to gearslots so for each slot you will have to choose between fighter and cleric.Do you have a quote for this? I don't believe I have read anything that points at class abilities being tied to gear slots.
I had understood we would only be able to have a certain number of abilities active at a time however
I'm pretty sure that's mostly right because both active and passive abilities are supposed to be slotted in order to be in effect. That said, some stuff isn't 'abilities' per se, i.e. BAB/Saves/"Skills" like Perception, and that should always apply irregardless of slotted abilities.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there are other abilities outside the normal scope of adventuring classes, that tie more into the trading and metagame aspects of PFO.
Badges are pretty much standard game achievements: you do a certain thing (either an unusual thing once or a more common thing a fixed number of times) and get the Badge added to your character. In addition to an Ability Score, you may need prereq Badges to purchase a particular Feat. Role levels are a particular kind of Badge; you unlock Fighter 3 once you have Fighter 2 and a few other requirements, and it's a prereq for Fighter-specific Feats.
one question: do you forsee these "Role Levels" as sharing or overlapping in Badges/Pre-reqs needed to qualify for them? I could see that to some extent pursuing a Barbarian path would automatically put you some ways towards the pre-reqs of Fighter or Ranger or Rogue even. You would still have to put limited training slots into those areas, but you're already someway down the path of meeting their qualifications, to the extent they overlap with yours. I'd actually like to hear more about that aspect, what is the extent of these Roles and their importance to Badges/Abilities? Does pursuing a given Role tend to advance a whole host of options, e.g. active/passive abilities, basic stats, saves, skills? i.e. like tabletop in a manner?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am definitely in two minds about skill/ability pathways.
On the one hand I don't want to have to buy (say) four levels of Fighter Role Levels to have a whip-wielding mage. On the other hand, I would like my specialised character Role to give me access to abilities that few others have, thus keeping it special.
Very much a case of want it both ways, I'm afraid.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's possible that a character might buy a new skill level in one-handed weapons, go out and earn a few badges, and get a message from the game saying "You have achieved Fighter level 3, Ranger level 1, and Barbarian level 1," regardless of the player's desired class progression.
In EVE, gaining a key skill level can often trigger more than one Certificate. It might be interesting to think of class levels as the PFO equivalent of EVE certificates.
Players in EVE generally don't panic if they inadvertantly qualify for a certificate they weren't trying to achieve. In a similar way, PFO players probably shouldn't worry if they end up with levels in several classes, even though they're after a dedication bonus. A few levels in a couple of side classes probably won't be unusual, because certain groups of classes share a loot of skills and abilities. Unintended class levels won't threaten dedication bonuses, because those are based on your currently-slotted abilities, not your class levels.