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I'd like to have this thread about how to translate the character into Pathfinder so that anyone could play this during a game. Thus, it's meant as a guide of sorts.
I've been watching the old Ahnold flicks, and have determined he's not really a Barbarian since he never went into a battle rage. Therefore, I am thinking he is more of a unarmored Fighter (not Ranger, as he doesn't do spells or magic personally) than a Barbarian. Probably has the Highlander trait to allow him class access to Stealth, maybe another for Perception.
What do you guys think? And, as I haven't read the original Conan books, plus determining the authenticity of said books is difficult, does anyone have advice on creating a Conan based on the books?
If you're just going by the movies, he did spend a lot of time as a gladiator. That's where he learned a lot of his combat skills.
Nice summation EWMH. Movie Conan is certainly not as awesome as book Conan, but still a fun watch. I agree pretty much 100% with your stat recommendations.
Book Conan is probably a barb from the get go (if you consider the lust-fuelled fury with which he pursued the frost-giant's daughter, and the many descriptions of him fighting like an animal, particularly in the early tales), multiclassing through rogue and fighter as well. Ranger fits well for a simplified single-class approach, though he would need to be spell-less and not take the animal companion option.
Probably my favourite pulp character ever.
As for alignment - N, with Chaotic and Good leanings?
I would say barb4/ unarmed fighter 8/ ranger 8.
I'd say Fighter 6/Rogue 2 with 18 Str and 16 Con.
With Skill Focus (Climb). And maybe even even Athletic on top of that.
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If you want to build the book Conan start with this excellent 3.5 Conan build by level on the Inzeladun site. It's well worth checking out and closely follows the stories in his progression. He's a Brb/Ftr/Rog there.
But what additional feats, rogue talents, rage powers and archetypes to use?
Unarmed fighter ? Really?
I'll have to read those books sometime...
Where on that page is that build?
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Just to show how old I am, in the modules put out by TSR in the Eighties Conan was a Fighter/Thief.
Where on that page is that build?
There is a series of 25 links under "Now, let's go see Conan!", depicting him as certain parts of his life, ranging from level 1 to level 25.
And those starts are not 3.5, they are 3.0 D&D. (Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction are 3.0 only skills - they were removed in 3.5.)
At the Hyborian Age d20 Campaign site, specifically this page, there is a ling to Conan stats for levels 1 to 20. It is 3.5.
If you want to build the book Conan start with this excellent 3.5 Conan build by level on the Inzeladun site. It's well worth checking out and closely follows the stories in his progression. He's a Brb/Ftr/Rog there.
But what additional feats, rogue talents, rage powers and archetypes to use?
Unarmed fighter ? Really?
I'll have to read those books sometime...
Yeah, unarmed fighter! All the abilities gained from it are right up his alley. Ranger and barbarian makes sure he is not losing out on any proficiencies. Plus the iconic bastard sword + unarmed striking TWFing seems appropriate.
Jera, thanks for the correction and additional link. Though the link has 3.5 d20 Conan stats Those are two great sites...
Now what rogue talents/rage powers/feats/archetypes fit him?
I can see unarmed fighter (ie tough guy) now if he multiclasses into it with enough proficiencies.
Byrd your build has Ranger and Brb. Which archetypes would you suggest ? He should swap FE and spells . So skirmished/freebooter perhaps? Why no rogue at all?
What Rogue abilities would Conan have? Just stealth? If so, we could duplicate Conan with just one class, and use the trait system to throw in 2 skills.
Here, lets narrow this down a mite, how about we create the movie version first, as its lower power level, and then do a book version?
And there never was a class called "soldier" "noble" or "pirate". I dunno, that guide doesn't seem really that useful for a Conan build. Really, we just want to know what abilities he used. We might not have to go to more than one or two classes, if we use the Trait system.
Ranger gives the skills to cover most rogue bases while adding static damage potential through freebooter. Rage powers are superstitious all the way... Pick up others through feats as needed.
And there never was a class called "soldier" "noble" or "pirate". I dunno, that guide doesn't seem really that useful for a Conan build. Really, we just want to know what abilities he used. We might not have to go to more than one or two classes, if we use the Trait system.
If you are talking about the Conan stats from the Hyborian Age d20 site, those are not actually 3.5 D&D. They are for the Conan d20 RPG from Mongoose Publishing (which is close enough to 3.5 D&D - both are similar enough I didn't notice the stats weren't actually for 3.5). There soldier, noble, and pirate are all classes. Soldier is just a renamed fighter. Pirate (and thief) are slightly altered rogues (in Pathfinder, these would probably be Rogue archetypes). Noble, as far as I know, doesn't really have a Pathfinder equivalent.
I think there's a NPC class called Aristocrat, but its a NPC class for good reason. Not sure if that would really help the concept.
I think the movie version of Conan seemed more like a straight up Fighter, but didn't wear armor and used Sneak (and possibly Perception). Wonder if there's an unarmored Fighter archetype? Didn't really seem like a Ranger, as Conan was anything but woodsy. He was either a slave or a gladiator for most of his life, before the flick started.
Freebooter?
How about Free Hand Fighter archetype?
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oh man AM BARBARIAN is going to be so mad when he sees this
???? Why? Conan in the movie never went into a screaming battle rage, really. Therefore, I argue that he seemed more like a straight up Fighter than anything else.
I don't know anything about the books. There's this argument that some are not canon and some are, so I wasn't sure which to get once upon a time. Therefore, I don't really have a say on the book version of Conan.
I'd play him straight Ranger all the way. Maybe level 1 Barbarian, but Conan isn't really a berserker.
And yes, FE humans, animals, and I dunno what after that. Focus on humans. Barb1/R10 is +6/+6 against all humans, which easily explains his massive combat ability with any weapon. He probably has Weapon Focus in the broadsword as his favorite weapon, but with +6/+6 against humans, he'll outclass any civilized fighter of the same level he faces quite easily.
And he's never higher then 6th in the movie, maybe 8th in the books.
He's also extremely smart, cunning, charismatic, as strong as a human can be, fast and extremely tough. I'd be putting him at base 20 str, 18 Con, 16 Dex, 14 Int, 14 Wis, and 16 Cha. Heavy point buy, but he was a man among men in the books.
==Aelryinth
Why straight Ranger? He never used two weapons as once, from what I know. And he didn't even use arrows all that often. Never heard of him tracking anyone, or using spells. Really, in the movies I can recall him sneaking around, using his sword, not having armor, and doing some climbing. Not much wilderness stuff.
FE humans? What's that?
Didn't you just tell me that he was at most 6th to 8th level, yet you also quoted a bunch of stats with Conan having a level of Barb and 10 of Ranger?
I'm confused.
They have other options. Such as Two-Handed Weapon Style or Mounted Combat.
Barbarian.
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Read the books.
Arnold's Conan does not even compare to Howard's Conan. SERIOUS. I grew up loving the movies and I still do. But there is no comparison to the original stories for Weird Tales Magazine. Howard's Conan is the original Barbarian, original thief and OG dungeon diver. Nuff said. I feel very strongly about this.
I enjoyed these stories the most reading a 1970s print that had them in chronological order. Not as Howard wrote them, perhaps not as he intended for them to be read. Modern printings have them in the order that Howard released them in Weird Tales Mag, and is supposed to be like an old man telling his tales in no particular order.
If we are doing Conan we HAVE to do Red Sonja!
If there were a ranger archetype that gave 1/2 lvl to DR then I would say we were done... As it is though, she shows skill (feats) like a fighter, DR and limited rage like a barbarian, tracking and survival like a ranger, and smite like a paladin. Iron will is a must for this build. And switch hitting as well.
I'm almost tempted to go with a dex build to show how nimble she is in her *ahem* light chain... Er... Shirt... But girl has some definite str behind her. I'm thinking minimalisticly speaking:
Str: 16
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 16
But now we are looking at a 43 pt buy... Lets try
Str: 16
Dex: 15 (+2)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 13
Cha: 14
For a 32 pt buy with a bump to dex, wis, and int and the rest to cha. I think paladin4 (oath of vengeance)/ ranger x would be best here.
Conan is, probably, a little too good to fit into most games.
Based on what I recall from the stories (all of which I've read, but some more than others), honestly, fighter with a couple of levels of rogue and perhaps one of barbarian is what I would say.
He's smart; a couple of feats (Iron Will & Alertness) can substitute for a beefed up Wisdom score, but he needs a good Intelligence.
The one level of barbarian could represent the occasional rage, but those could also be represented by something more like hero points; it's more in the vein of a surge of strength than a barbarian rage. The rogue levels are mostly in the sense of a way to get the breadth of skills; a trait covers his skill at stealth, but Conan has a lot of scattered knowledge; something I'd say is actually best represented by Bardic Knowledge.
Really, skill-wise, he has the big physical skills: Climb, Swim, Stealth, Acrobatics (moreso in the Jump sense than the rest but all of it), some Disable Device, lots of Perception, Survival, and a feature that lets him make Knowledge & Linguistics checks untrained.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a source for that last one, and it's still a lot of skills, which is partially compensated for by a good Intelligence. And, of course, a ton of Strength.
EDIT: I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, since I'm actively working on a PF version of a Tome of Battle character who was inspired by reading the Conan stories. Ranger (skirmisher) makes a great chassis instead of Fighter & Rogue. He loses his free feats when wearing heavy armor, but except for The Black Colossus, The Scarlet Citadel, and Hour of the Dragon, he really isn't going above medium armor. Skirmisher gives up spellcasting, and he can just take the companion bond (this could even be a model for how he inspires allies).
I still don't know how to get that bardic knowledge proxy.
Improved Unarmed Strike is a must.
For my "inspired by" character, I threw together a 25-point stat array yesterday.
Str 18 (16+2), Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 12
The only thing I'm seeing that adds a bardic knowledge feature, aside from Bard itself, is Pathfinder Chronicler, and that does not fit Conan.
Just to show how old I am, in the modules put out by TSR in the Eighties Conan was a Fighter/Thief.
Hahaha, I still have one of those modules with arnold/conan on the cover!
Or E6 perhaps?
I just see him as a Human Barbarian with an Int of 13. Superstitious for sure. Max ranks in Survival, Stealth, Perception, and Acrobatics.
I genuinely don't know why he'd need to multiclass into "rogue". He wasn't some cutpurse, he was a burglar and he beat people to a pulp. Just a smart barbarian adapting to his surroundings.
Same with fighter. There's nothing in the fighter class that makes it necessary for him to put levels there to lead an army or be a soldier.
I mean, especially in Pathfinder where there are no cross-class skills and you get lots of feats already.
1) You don't have to have max ranks to be good at something. There's nothing that he did in his time as a burglar that would necessitate a rogue dip. With 6 skills/level (4 bbn+1 human +1 int) you could totally dip into all that stuff. As for sense motive, definitely has Alertness and a decent Wisdom.
2)Barbarians wear armor too. /boggle. Not all Barbarians are screaming wild men. To me the argument against fighter is that all the archetypical D&D fighter stuff Conan definitely doesn't have. Armor training? Nah, he just picks up whatever he can off of dead bodies. Weapon Training/Focus/Specialization? Definitely not, again, he's a master of all weapons.
If we're not focusing on mechanical details, then stating what Conan would be mechanically within a ruleset is sort of contradictory. There are no limitations on how you can roleplay any class or race. The one barbarian I've played for any length of time was a dour, emotionally distant, fatalistic father figure for a lost tribe.
I agree, he could be portrayed in a number of ways, but he also has a class modeled after him that I think works rather well. Especially in Pathfinder with Superstitious/Witch Hunter, Rolling Dodge, etc.
I mean, we could argue for days about how Gandalf is better portrayed as a Sorcerer or a Druid or a Psion (I've heard it all). Heck I've heard people say he's a fighter with max ranks in UMD. Maybe Sam Gamgee is a Cavalier, what with that pony... There was once someone who argued with me for DAYS that Conan was really a wizard.
*shrug*
Don't forget he was a master climber from the Tower of the Elephant onwards. He also spoke and wrote at least six languages.
He does indeed use two weapons several times, but he prefers broadsword and shield. If you go E6, TWF ranger works fine, otherwise use power attacker.
he is NOT a sleight of hand artist, trap remover, or lock picker, so he's not a rogue. He's a ranger through and through. He does plenty of tracking and ranger things during his time fighting the Picts on the Aquilonian Frontier.
Sure he's E6, but if you want to build a Conan character, he's got to be at least 10th to be PF viable. An E6 Barb1/Ranger5 with FE human and even just a little raging will butcher any human spec fighter alive. He's supposed to be a fast runner, and when he went over the walls as a youth, it was a member of a blood-mad Cimmerian horde...he could easily have a level. As soon as he hits civilized areas, however, it's all about his athletic ability and stealthiness and ability to climb...but he's plainly NOT a theif.
==Aelryinth
Yeek. Alright people, lets keep this simple.
We shall call the movie version of Conan the Ahnuld. The book version shall henceforth be called Conan.
Now, we have to agree on some classes here. Point buys mean nothing, as I usually roll up my stats, and really, all we want is to guesstimate his attributes. Now, we CAN assume that both will get two traits from the APG or elsewhere, and that we can blow a feat to get two more if necessary. This means that Conan and Ahnuld can stick with one class and buy more class skills using the trait system.
So! Gimme a class, attributes, feats, and traits of the Ahnuld version first, as it's the simplest. Then, gimme your best take on Conan from the books, BUT you guys have to agree on a base class that makes up the majority of the build first!
The movie version is a barb/fighter/ranger. If we're going E6, I'd make him a 1 (born)/2 (fighting in pits)/3 (free man) Barb/Fighter/Ranger, FE humans. No Rogue levels, he might be able to sneak and climb, but he's no trap guy, lock picker, or social guy.
Str: 21 COn: 18 Dex:14 Int:10 Wis: 12 Cha: 15
==Aelryinth
The movie version is a barb/fighter/ranger. If we're going E6, I'd make him a 1 (born)/2 (fighting in pits)/3 (free man) Barb/Fighter/Ranger, FE humans. No Rogue levels, he might be able to sneak and climb, but he's no trap guy, lock picker, or social guy.
Str: 21 COn: 18 Dex:14 Int:10 Wis: 12 Cha: 15
==Aelryinth
Not workable. Reduce the number of classes, and try to keep the essential skills. I *KNOW* there wasn't any Barbarian rages in the movie, and Conan didn't do any tracking, or dual wielding, or anything that would indicate Ranger. No animal companion, no spells etc.
Now, I do know that Conan DID do some sneaking, and lots of listening (Perception). He also knew all of zilch about magic, but had the capacity to learn when it was shoved in his face (the mirror monster). Therefore, we could use traits to give him class access to Stealth and Perception. Like I wrote earlier, he seems more straight out Fighter than anything else. I suppose if we got desperate for skill points, a level of Rogue.
Note that Rogues can put their skill points anywhere, so he could easily have a level of that class and still stick within character.
Barbarian isn't something you are born into, in the movie that was used to describe his near total lack of culture or education, and his origins.
I argue that his Int was higher than average (12-13 maybe), but that his Charisma is lower than 15 from what I saw. He wasn't really much of a leader. I'd put him down near 12 at most.
He'd probably have a high Str given Ahnuld at the time was a bodybuilder. Dex I suppose is about right at 14, maybe 12. Con.... that's a hard one, he really didn't get hit much to test it, and not many tests of endurance.
As for race, straight up Human. Orc would simulate his attributes decently, but he wasn't all that savage so that's out.
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Somebody always has to ruin the fun by reminding everybody that Conan of the books IS a barbarian in the true sense of the word. That is, he comes from a barbarian tribe in a barbarous land.
The Pathfinder/D&D barbarian is a new construct, and may as well have been called Blaburglubliblu, for all its relationship to barbarians of the real world or their literary counterparts.
Thus, judging Conan by the revisioning of a word into an abstract game concept is really insulting to Conan. And real life. And pretty much everything not in the pages of a Pathfinder book.
I gave him 4 lvls of barbarian just for the boost to will through the superstitious line, but I would tend to agree with you.
If you're going to ignore barbarian as 'berserker', then's he's a 4/2 human Ranger, FE/Humans, in the Power Attack line. You can go 5/1 and get him to +4/+4 vs Humans, which is impossibly badass in an E6 world.
==Aelryinth
Okay. Why Ranger? We could just use Fighter, and give him some character traits to grant the ability to sneak, for example. As I recall, Armor Expert (assuming he wears any) and Highlander grant a pretty decent Stealth to warrior types, or alternatively Wisdom in Flesh applied to Stealth totally negates ACP to Stealth only.
I mean, what does Conan do that particularly Ranger-like?
In the low levels, Conan could work just fine as a Pathfinder character. This thread is simply meant to give fanboys the chance to emulate the character in game, that's all. Nothing really ambitious.
As for the boost to Will saves, what about Iron Will and Improved Iron Will feats? Or the two Fighter feats for disrupting spellcasters?
But he is specifically superstitious and distrustful of magic.
Superstitious and Witch Hunter.
In E6 I could accept Bbn4/Rgr2 or Bbn4/Ftr2. But to say he's not a PF barbarian is pure silliness.
Remember that Trait Bonuses do not stack. You use the highest.
But he is specifically superstitious and distrustful of magic.
Superstitious and Witch Hunter.In E6 I could accept Bbn4/Rgr2 or Bbn4/Ftr2. But to say he's not a PF barbarian is pure silliness.
Agreed, although being called a barbarian doesn't need to mean you are one... The class was made for Conan, even though I do think that a multiclass suits him as well.
Well, where magic is concerned, I recall the core book that had Disruptive and Spell Breaker feats that could be used to counter magic. That, and getting the Imp Init feat, along with anything to increase his speed would work well to screw up spellcasters.
So, I want to see what your guys' arguments are for each class. So far, I've seen some present Barbarian (for the superstitious bit), Ranger, and I mentioned Fighter. Given that Fighter is the simplest out of the 3 to use to reconstruct Conan (and I am a believer in Occam's Razor), I want to know why each of you think that Barbarian and Ranger would work better than Fighter for the base class. Remember, skills are not the issue, since traits can be used to grant class access to any skill.