Well the cleric isn't as combat oriented as say an inquisitor, so If I was going to do a dimensional dervish, I'd go Inquisitor with the travel domain.
However, technically by RAW, this ability isn't the same as casting dimension door. Monk and arcane caster with this spell.
I think RAI and at my table this is fine.
I think you should look at Sandman Bard
1) you get some sneak attack so you can capitalize on flanking with yourself
2) you can steal spells (maybe steal more dimension door spells
3) 3/4 BAB is better than a wizard trying to do it.
4) you get all sorts of other useful abilities and skills
5) no need to multiclass.
6) Bard gets decent weapon selection without spending feats or worrying about favorite weapons.
7) crowd control and THEN "bamf" around controlled opponents flanking them = FUN
Im not sure why you go for a level of wizard with this build?
your BAB with this build above is what 15? a 20th level bard would have the same BAB.
Im not sure all those levels of fighter get you anything you "need" for the build.
I think a magic item boosting your travel distance per round would be better than extended spell longstrider.
I think I have a Dimensional Dervish build that works better than the original one, and it's pretty simple.
Crossblooded Draconic/Orc Sorcerer 9 / Dragon Disciple 4.
You can pick up Dimensional Agility at 9th level, Dimensional Assault at 11th level, and Dimensional Dervish at 13th level. Combine this with level 13 being the first level at which you can utilize Form of the Dragon I, and here's your basic plan.
Round 1: Form of the Dragon I, Quicken Shield (optional, obviously, and this is coming from your bloodline feat at 11th level), Fly 30 feet into the air.
Round 2: Dimensional Dervish with all 5 of your Natural Attacks while flying to utilize your fly speed (this part may not be 100% RAW, but I think it should fly - no pun intended.) End your turn next to the biggest, baddest threat.
Optional - Round 3: Quicken Chill Touch - Make your 5 natural attacks again, with each one forcing a save or the target loses 1 point of strength. Granted it is a low save, it's still a cool combo and a great way to drop your targets strength by 3 to 5 points over the course of two rounds assuming fortitude isn't their best save. (This part is also not 100% certain - not sure you can use multiple natural attacks to proc a touch spell, but I think I would allow it as you using a 5th level spell to accomplish it.)
Orc Bloodline gets you +4 strength by 13th level (+6 if you utilize Robes of Arcane Heritage). 2 Level of Dragon Disciple gets you another +4 strength. Form of the Dragon I gets you another +4 Strength (along with +2 con and +4 natural armor.). Throw in a Belt of Giant Strength +4 and you're sitting pretty in the +16 strength range, so you should easily be near 40 strength. I'd suggest starting with strength near about 16 or 18. You can also still deal some SOLID damage with spells, even if your saves are a bit lower than the average caster due to +2 damage per dice of one element between the draconic and orc bloodlines and +1 damage per dice on all other elements means you still aren't too specialized.
This build only gets better at level 15 and 17 when you get Form of the Dragon II and III, respectively. Also, if you pick up a teamwork feat (I suggest Outflank) and grab Dimensional Savant at 17th level, you get nifty bonuses to most of your Dimensional Dervish attacks - probably all but the first. Outflank is also a REALLY great feat to pick up on this build if you can convince one or two people in your party to grab it early. You'll likely want the help hitting with a mostly 1/2 BAB class going into melee.
I personally love this build and am REALLY looking forward to trying it out - Some day... If you give it a shot, let me know how it goes!
a bard will be able to self haste,
have you looked at magus for hasted assault?
magus could also get a familiar.
have you looked into doing this with an eldritch knight? Your level of diviner would make more sense.
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Both bard and Magus don't get access to dim door until level 10, which would delay the dimensional dervish tree too long (for my tastes). I want to *bamf* and I want to *bamf* now! :D
Synthesist accesses dimension door at 6th level. Earlier than any other caster.
As a spell like ability: he can use once per day at 6th lever, plus 1/day for each additional 6 levels. As a spell, quite a few times at higher level.
Synthesist accesses dimension door at 6th level. Earlier than any other caster.
As a spell like ability: he can use once per day at 6th lever, plus 1/day for each additional 6 levels. As a spell, quite a few times at higher level.
The absolutely correct answer is "spell-like abilities are not spells, and therefore do not count as spells for anything that requires actual spellcasting."
This (obviously) includes qualifying for and utilizing feats. Therefore no spell like ability (including Maker's Jump from a Synthesist or the Dimension Door Evolution) allows you to utilize Dimensional Agility.
I'm telling you, the dimensional dervishing dragon is the best way to go, without a doubt. =)
A while back I created Haloy Wrang. She's not 13th-level, but I imagine she'd make a fine dimensional dervisher at that level just the same.
Synthesist accesses dimension door at 6th level. Earlier than any other caster.
As a spell like ability: he can use once per day at 6th lever, plus 1/day for each additional 6 levels. As a spell, quite a few times at higher level.
The absolutely correct answer is "spell-like abilities are not spells, and therefore do not count as spells for anything that requires actual spellcasting."This (obviously) includes qualifying for and utilizing feats. Therefore no spell like ability (including Maker's Jump from a Synthesist or the Dimension Door Evolution) allows you to utilize Dimensional Agility.
Not that I'd play one, but I think they ruled that because the ability specifically says "casts" it was okay for Dimensional Dervishing.
I'm telling you, the dimensional dervishing dragon is the best way to go, without a doubt. =)I'm building one right now to see what it looks like. Hint: It looks like a blast :D
this should totally be errat'd to allow for more builds using the feat chain.
this should totally be errat'd to allow for more builds using the feat chain.Synthesist accesses dimension door at 6th level. Earlier than any other caster.
As a spell like ability: he can use once per day at 6th lever, plus 1/day for each additional 6 levels. As a spell, quite a few times at higher level.
The absolutely correct answer is "spell-like abilities are not spells, and therefore do not count as spells for anything that requires actual spellcasting."This (obviously) includes qualifying for and utilizing feats. Therefore no spell like ability (including Maker's Jump from a Synthesist or the Dimension Door Evolution) allows you to utilize Dimensional Agility.
Not that I'd play one, but I think they ruled that because the ability specifically says "casts" it was okay for Dimensional Dervishing.
I'm telling you, the dimensional dervishing dragon is the best way to go, without a doubt. =)I'm building one right now to see what it looks like. Hint: It looks like a blast :D
seriously. i would LOVE for my shadowdancer build to have this, because it's awesome to think of someone literally hopping from shadow to shadow to attack people.
yes, thematically the Travel domain and shadowdancer abilities should be allowed... this is ALOT of investment to keep it bottled up with JUST the spell casting thing.
I sure there are some monsters that could use it as well.
IT seems to me, being able to flank with yourself is ASKING for sandman bard and shadow dancer builds... I just cant seem to see "wasting" the free opportunity to add sneak attacks.
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Synthesist accesses dimension door at 6th level. Earlier than any other caster.
As a spell like ability: he can use once per day at 6th lever, plus 1/day for each additional 6 levels. As a spell, quite a few times at higher level.
The absolutely correct answer is "spell-like abilities are not spells, and therefore do not count as spells for anything that requires actual spellcasting."This (obviously) includes qualifying for and utilizing feats. Therefore no spell like ability (including Maker's Jump from a Synthesist or the Dimension Door Evolution) allows you to utilize Dimensional Agility.
The thing is, dimensional agility does not specifically require a spell. It requires the ability to cast dimension door.
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door.
Maker's jump grants this ability.
At 6th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can cast dimension door as a spell-like ability using his caster level
This is not counting the fact that summoners gain dimension door on their spell list at 7th level. The first level they could have selected dimensional agility in any case.
What this means is, the validity of your argument is irrelevant for purposes of feat selection. The synthesist can then use his class feature to cast dimension door, using the dimensional agility feat when he does so.
A sorcerer is never going to be eligible to begin taking the dimensional agility feat tree before 9th level. The sorcerer will have a +4 BAB, +5 if 9th level is multiclassed into a full BAB class. The synthesist will have a +6 BAB a level 7.
But the synthesists BAB progression is slower too and some of the feats require BAB, so although he can enter the feat chain earlier can he really use the BAMF effectively sooner?
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But the synthesists BAB progression is slower too and some of the feats require BAB, so although he can enter the feat chain earlier can he really use the BAMF effectively sooner?
At 7th level a synthesist is only 1 point below full BAB. He's also been combat focused on feat selection since level 1. The cleric, bard and magus follow similar BAB progression and catch up to the synthesist on levels divisible by 4.
A magus is going to be best from a full offensive perspective. The synthesist will be the toughest. The cleric and bard will be the most versatile. The sorcerer is changing career paths at mid-level, sacrificing spells for mediocre melee abilities.
dimensional feat chain should count as combat feats. Would help with certain builds and they ARE combat oriented feats that have BAB prereqs.
I might have to house rule that one.
The feats need some errata like being combat feats and allowing spell like abilities to synergize with it.
Edit: also when a magus is doing it, it's in heavy armor with spell combat, spell strike and has improved spell recall to do it again, oh and again.
Personally, I would allow the shadowdancer's shadow jump ability to work with dimensional agility. There is no reason for it to be excluded while abundant step is permitted.
I agree.
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yes to all of that, but two things: 12 sorc, 8 DD still gets you lvl 9 sorc spells. And at lvl 13 you'd be *bamf*ing around as a dragon. All the time. With orc/draconic bloodlines, at lvl 13 you'd have about 36-40 str. That's pretty scary.
At level 13 the synthesist can be a dragon with a 40 strength full time.
At level 13 the magus can nova for enough to one-round the synthesist.The cleric is a full progression caster. Always will be.
Bards have their own thing. They are also eligible for DD.
Yes. The sorcerer is a better spellcaster than everyone except the cleric. He still won't be as effective with dimensional agility as a dedicated melee build.
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A while back I created Haloy Wrang. She's not 13th-level, but I imagine she'd make a fine dimensional dervisher at that level just the same.
Nice character.
I've got a magus/synthesist patterned after Spiral laying around somewhere with the dimensional agility line. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
hmm cool concept, i forgot about spiral... synthesist for extra limbs eh?
does it use broad study or is there no summoner spells worth bringing over for it?
hmmm that looks interesting.
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hmm cool concept, i forgot about spiral... synthesist for extra limbs eh?
does it use broad study or is there no summoner spells worth bringing over for it?
I found my notes on her and plugged them into hero labs real quick.
Yes, spell blending so she can cast summoner spells while using spell combat. Both Dimension Door and Haste are taken as summoner spells.
Magus keeps coming up, and yeah, they could be effective at this, and are certainly a thematic fit. Thematically, they actually do this BEST IMO, but there's really no reason for them to actually bother with the dimensional feats. Aside from late entry into the actual feat tree, they don't gain much from most of the dimensional tree's feats.
They already have spell combat out of the gate to combine with things such as Bladed Dash (and Greater Bladed Dash), Force Hook Charge, and Dimension Door (you would need Dimensional Agility to attack following this one, but you could still full attack then dimension door with spell combat).
While those first two spells aren't bonafide teleportation effects in that they sort of require a straight path to the target, they're lower level that DD, and when combined with spell combat allow a "teleport/bamf" plus full attack as early as 2nd level spell access. Don't think anyone can "bamf" earlier than that, but a Magus doesn't require the feat tree to do it unless they're really hell bent on getting the self/multi flank ability from the final feat at very high levels. I wouldn't bother with more than Dimensional Agility for a Magus though (and probably not even that).
Further, Bladed Dash even gives an extra attack with a solid bonus on top of your full attack (and greater bladed dash has the potential to grant several extra attacks). You can also do neat things like Spell Combat--> Full Attack --> 5 foot step back (so no need to cast defensively) --> Bladed Dash through enemy, gaining another attack, and ending up somewhere behind the enemy up to 20 feet away from them. Pretty bad ass if ya ask me.
Finally, Magi would only be able to use the Dimensional Feat chain abilities OR Spell Combat as both end up requiring full round actions, but the Magus that uses SC still has his swift action to burn for a quickened spell (heck, why not another bladed dash?), or arcane pool usage.
TL;DR - Magus effectively does the "bamfing around the battlefield" schtick pretty well out of the box, and earlier than any of the above methods, but its ironic that the Dimensional feat chain doesn't add a whole lot to their version of this trick.