Yet another Gauntlet question

[satsunada]

Hi,
New to the forums but I want to add a new can of worms. Ok, I'm playing a sorceror with the arcane bloodline. I chose to go the way of the bonded object and selected some spiked gauntlets. I've come to the conclusion that to avoid weird fuss I should downgrade to regular gauntlets and talk with the GM. Now,the text says i'm required to hold the bonded object to even cast but my questions are as follows:

1. If I want to get things to modify the damage I'm doing (e.g. Style Feats), do they even apply?
2. What the heck weapon focus or weapon specialization do I use? Is it Unarmed Strike or Gauntlet?
3. If #2 is the first option, would the feats modify my gauntlet AND fist damage?
4. I assume spellcasting is ok since the GM thus far hasn't complained (and it's a bonded object.. and i'm headed toward Eldritch Knight) but can you foresee any issues?
5. Since they are separate weapons, could I buy two-weapon fighting to swing with fist and gauntlet (unarmed strikes are considered light after all)?

Basically, the way I read it is I treat the gauntlets as a weapon for the purposes of enchanting but the enchantments only affect that fist (much like a sword enhancement doesn't give bonuses to the shield.. usually). If I want to modify my fist, I have to buy that expensive amulet. I can cast spells through it. I should be able to buy Style Feats (e.g. Boar .. and yes i know the issues around that) given the reading of the weapon in the text.

Any clarification you could give would be handy and appreciated.

[mplindustries]

Why would you pick a gauntlet and not a more useful weapon if you're going for Eldritch Knight?

[Booksy]

1)Some do, some don't. If they specify a benefit Unarmed Strike, no they won't help you. Otherwise, yes.

2)You would pick Weapon Focus (Gauntlet)

3) Pay attention to your feats, some will modify damage in general, some will not. Just remember using a Gauntlet is not an a unarmed attack. You're armed. With a gauntlet.

4) A gauntlet is technically not armor, it does not have an Arcane Spell Failure chance. The only issue would be if your GM rules a spells somatic component requires skin contact or some such, yes, there could be an issue.

5) An unarmed strike can be any part of your body - foot, knee, elbow, forehead, etc. So yes, with TWF you could Gauntlet/UAS, cause as you say they're both light weapoons. Keep in mind you CANNOT punch someone with a gauntlet as an unarmed strike, it is armed. The gauntlet is a weapon.

Yes, enchanting a gauntlet only affects attacks made with the gauntlet. If you have the levels to spare, and desperately want to have magical abilities with UAS, consider a dip into monk - making your UAS count as natural attacks for the purposes of buff spells - and get a permanent Magic Fang cast on yourself. Its cheaper then the amulet. Downside is you can't add enchantment properties, just pure + hit/damage.

[Dragonchess Player]

1) It depends on the style feats.

2) Weapon Focus (Gauntlet) or Weapon Focus (Unarmed), depending on whether you are punching with the gauntlet or attacking with other forms of unarmed strikes (elbow/forearm smash, head-butt, kick, etc.). "Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets." If you are already taking Improved Unarmed Strike to qualify for the style feats, using a gauntlet is not needed: "Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice." Note that a gauntlet, as opposed to a spiked gauntlet, does not in itself count as being armed for provoking attacks of opportunities when making unarmed strikes or for threatening adjacent squares; you still require Improved Unarmed Strike for that.

3) "A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack."

4) Since you are "wielding" (note the text for a bonded weapon) a gauntlet as long as it's worn, there shouldn't be an issue.

5) Yes, you can use two-weapon fighting with unarmed attacks; it doesn't stack with a monk's flurry of blows, as the monk is functionally two-weapon fighting with a flurry.

[satsunada]

Conflicting answers, sort of. To be expected. This topic seemed like it has consistent issues.

To answer a question or so. No, I can't afford to go into monk. I'll pay attention to feats thanks. The GM doesn't seem to mind me spellcasting through it but if I use a touch attack, I have to either use Touch AC and gain no weapon damage or attack normally at regular AC and add whatever spell effect. Also, I can't do a regular attack in the same round I cast, I have to basically hold the charge.

To answer the "Why that weapon?" question. There are two or three major reasons. First off, it is a bonded item. If I were to use better weapons, I'd have to risk a disarm action completely removing my ability to cast (aka the 20+spell lvl concentration check). Secondly, I didn't want the GM to say I have a hand full if I equip any other weapon. Some GM's are picky about somatic rules and I didn't want to risk that. On top of somatics, there are other instances where having 2 hands available at all times is rather handy, like if you have to climb a rope. I don't want to have to burn a feat on Quick Draw either. Thirdly, I didn't want to take up a magic item slot that could be used for better items or for items that tend to get stolen (amulets, rings, broaches, etc.). Also, to be fair, rarely do people tying you up or imprisoning you get rid of your armor *wink* It also makes it much easier to gain entrances to bars and hideouts while technically armed. They like to take swords, daggers and what not. They usually don't demand armor.

[satsunada]

Oh.. one other thing. Thanks for the swift, friendly and informative responses :D

I've worked out, what I think, is a system with the GM that's acceptable.

Btw, one other benefit of a gauntlet, if I take ghost touch, it becomes easier to manipulate incorporeal objects or creatures. Swords and staves have trouble picking up ghost money :D

[johnlocke90]

Are you new to Pathfinder? Because your biggest issue is going to be not hitting enemies with either a gauntlet or unarmed strike. Your base attack bonus scales really slowly and you need to split points between charisma, strength and constitution.

[Grick]

satsunada wrote:

The GM doesn't seem to mind me spellcasting through it but if I use a touch attack, I have to either use Touch AC and gain no weapon damage or attack normally at regular AC and add whatever spell effect. Also, I can't do a regular attack in the same round I cast, I have to basically hold the charge.

Is this a houserule you and your GM came up with, or do you think that's what the rules say?

It sounds like you're getting Spellstrike in exchange for losing your free attack.

[cwslyclgh]

Grick wrote:

satsunada wrote:

The GM doesn't seem to mind me spellcasting through it but if I use a touch attack, I have to either use Touch AC and gain no weapon damage or attack normally at regular AC and add whatever spell effect. Also, I can't do a regular attack in the same round I cast, I have to basically hold the charge.

Is this a houserule you and your GM came up with, or do you think that's what the rules say?

It sounds like you're getting Spellstrike in exchange for losing your free attack.

I believe it would work fine with normal gauntlets (which simply let you unarmed strikes deal lethal damage), since you can explicitly deliver a touch spell via touch attack or as an unarmed strike (requiring you to hit the full AC)

PRD wrote:

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

I do not believe it would work with spiked gauntlets though which are actually a weapon in their own right rather than a modification of your unarmed strike.

[Grick]

cwslyclgh wrote:

I do not believe it would work with spiked gauntlets though which are actually a weapon in their own right rather than a modification of your unarmed strike.

SKR has said all fist weapons are regular armed light melee weapons. They have nothing to do with unarmed strikes.

[cwslyclgh]

Sean is wrong, then, at least in regards to gauntlets (baring some errata, which he later claims is unneeded because he apparently thinks that we can't comprehend the English language correctly when we read it). Normal gauntlets explicitly modify your unarmed strike...

PRD wrote:

Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.