Ignoring the obvious choices (spell casters and pure monks) what would be a way to build a character who does not use armor? Well here's my thought
Take Goblin, for +4 dex and small size giving you +3 to AC right off. Take a base 17 dex and drop a point into it at level 4. take a 12 con, an 12 int, an 10 wis, and a 7 cha (-2 from goblin bringing it down to a 5).
Your stats should look like this with a 20 point buy in:
STR 15 -2
DEX 17+4
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 7-2
Level 1 and 2 you take Master of Many Styles, grabbing Crane Stance and Crane Wing with your bonus feats. Take Weapon Finesse at level 1 for good + to hit with your fists, and for use later. This will also net you evasion, which will be great in conjunction with your high dex for shrugging off AoE damage.
Third level you need to have 3 ranks in acrobatics, to increase your AC while fighting defensively. You also take a fighter level at level 3, picking up Exotic Weapon Prof with the Elven Curved Blade and Power Attack (needed for a later feat).
Level 4 and 5 are alchemist for two reasons. The first is the Mutagen, which will give you +4 dex, and +2 natural armor (at the price of -2 wisdom sadly), and the second is the vestigial limb discovery. This discovery will be needed to use Crane Wing while still using a two handed weapon. At level 5 you will also gain access to shield of swing, bumping your AC up another 5.
Finally, level 6 and onward is levels of Urban Barbarian. Due to a shift in alignment, you will lose the ability to take monk levels, but you retain class abilities so who cares. Now you can rage for another +4 dex, and later +6.
Now for the math.
Level 6 (2 MoMS, 1 Fighter, 2 Alchemist, X Urban Barbarian)
10 + 6 (dex) + 2 (dex muta) + 2 (natural armor muta) + 4 (fighting defensively) + 2 (dex rage) + 5 (shield of swings) + 1 (small size)
=
32 AC + the ability to deflect one melee attack every round, and reflex save for full at level 6. Nearly all of your AC is dex or dodge, so gunslingers, incorporeal creatures, and ray mages hate you with a passion. Next level you get uncanny dodge, and rogues everywhere weep.
No magic items. No armor. Deal with it.
Sadly, your DPS is looking pretty pathetic at 1d8+1, +6 from power attack, but divided by 2 from shield of swings. Also, being a small sized goblin with ungodly AC will probably end with you being ignored by every enemy.
*Build for later levels
Your Con at this point is lacking, as you dumped everything into dex. Favored class does little to make up for this, as you spec into 4 classes withing 6 levels. Take toughness if you are desperate for more HP. Dodge works for more AC, but it's like pouring a cup of water into an ocean: its not really doing much. Crane Riposte and Combat Reflexes make for a good combination. Improved Critical, Critical Focus, and other Critical feats can pad out the DPS you lack once you get to high levels.
Taking another two levels in fighter (assuming you are using the weapon master archetype will net you another feat and Weapon Training with your ECB. If you continue on the route of specing Urban Barbarian, work towards the Dragon Totem rage powers. These will net you an incredible amount of DR /- once you get the Dragon Resilience (check with your DM, it is rather ambiguously worded). The Guarded Stance rage power will also give a small bump to your AC, but it only lasts as long as your Con Mod so it's hardly worth it
Look to pick up an Agile Elven Curved Blade as soon as you can to help with your damage. Belt of dex is an obvious pick up, though a belt of con can help pad out your low HP. A headband of wis is a luxury (you get your wis to AC thanks to those monk levels and it provides you will +1 to will saves), but the bonus is removed when you use a Dex mutagen so it is not needed. Other magical armor items (rings, bracers, etc) are cherries on top of the cake.
Savage Barbarian archetype might help. Scaling dodge and natural armor bonus, though they climb fairly slowly. Well, maybe the natural armor isn't terribly slow, but it doesn't kick in til level 7. The dodge is pretty slow imo, but hey, it is a dodge bonus.
You can also stack it with Urban Barb for controlled rage. Add that to your Dex, which is totally not limited by any armor, and don't worry about taking a hit to AC from it.
Edit: I suppose the link to Urban Barb is kind of unnecessary for obvious reasons (like being factored into the build above), but you know.
With regards to Heirloom weapon: Well balls. I forgot to assign the first level feat, so I just used that to take Weapon Finesse, and you take Exotic Weapon Prof at level 3 with the fighter level.
With regards to Crane Wing: The vestigial limb discovery grants you said free hand.
Not really applicable here, since you use CHA as a dump stat, but I also remember the feat called Osyluth Guile. Basically, with the dodge feat and 8 ranks in bluff, you can add your CHA mod to AC as a dodge bonus against 1 opponent when you fight defensively.
Of course, few characters that are not casters would have a positive CHA mod.... Paladins and people who rolled really good stats might like this.
One combination I came up with for some NPCs was to begin play as a monk with the Martial Artist archetype, then take the next 3 levels as a barbarian with the Savage Barbarian archetype, 3 more levels as a monk, and then all remaining levels as a barbarian. If dexterity and wisdom are reasonably high, this character has good reason to never wear armor. For added flavor, I had these characters dump charisma and take the Wild Rager archetype as well. These characters make excellent "naked savages".
Dot.
UPDATE: Doing this with human works almost as well and leaves you with a few more points to put into other stats. Total AC lose by level 6 = 1
Changes: Level 1 use your bonus feat to take dodge. Put you +2 to a stat into dex (of course). Stat build should look like this.
STR 13
DEX 17 +2 +1
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 11
CHA 7
Gain: 1 extra HP per level, +1 Fortitude saves, 2 more effective HP (You need to be brought down to -14 rather than -12 to die), slightly better charisma score (but you're still socially inept), the ability to gain an 1 modifier for you wisdom score at level 8, 1d10 instead of 1d8 damage dice, +1 skill point a level (human skilled racial trait)
Loss: -1 AC (lose of small sized), -1 Reflex Save, -2 to hit (+2 dex and small size), -1 in all dex based skills, a further -8 on stealth (loss of small sized and goblin racial trait)
For added flavor, I had these characters dump charisma and ....
Suuure :----D
For added flavor, I had these characters dump charisma and ....Suuure :----D
can't ever play a social recluse, or an uncultured bararian, or someone who's huge ego gets in the way of talking with regular folks, gruff types, hard-headed or unsubtle people, or dwarves without minmaxing.
(this is sarcasm, by the way)
@Zauriel: Not really. Unless you are fighting in a very confined space, the chance you are adjacent to two allies at any given point is slim.
Maybe a Monk/Some kind of Wis caster would be pretty easy to do for loads of AC.
Monk/Druid is the obvious choice, but...hmmm.
How well would a Human Monk/Gunslinger/Alchemist work d'you think? They pump both Dex and Wis anyway.
So something like:
Str: 10
Dex: 18 (+2 floating)
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 16 (+1 4th level)
Cha: 7
Let's say Monk (MoMS/Sacred Mountain) 1/Gunslinger (Pistolero) 4/Alchemist 1, Dodge at 1st level along with Crane Style as a bonus at 1st and Snapping Turtle Style as the second 1st level bonus. Crane Wing at 3rd. Adds +1 Wis at 4th.
Would have...lessee: +3 Wis, +4 Dex, +1 Dodge, +1 Nimble, +1 Natural Armor Sacred Mountain, for a total of 20 AC at all times. 22 fighting defensively, 24 with total defense. Add in the Dex mutagen for a further +2 Dex AC and +2 Natural Armor for a flat AC of 24 normally, 26 fighting defensively, and 28 with total defense. Add in Turtle and Crane Styles and you have 25 normally, 27 fighting defensively, and 29 total defense, with the ability to deflect one melee attack per round.
Not quite as impressive as 32 flat, but I believe a Gunslinger will have a much higher damage output. You'd definitely never miss, that's for sure.
Remember that dex mutagen gives -2 to wisdom, and thus imparts a -1 to AC because of monk levels. Also, fighting defensively with crane style gives a +3 dodge bonus, further increased to a +4 if you have 3 ranks in acrobatics.
Man, I'm really not on the ball tonight. =/ For some reason I thought Dex dropped Cha. So that's 23 with mutagen (24 with Turtle), but actually a 30 fighting defensively and a 32 with total defense? Still not bad I think for something that only blows 2 Feats at first level for an AC boost.
On a side note, that's never made sense to me. Str and Int makes sense, since Int is a measure of your raw mental power, but Wis always seemed like mental constitution to me (Willpower to stave off spells and such) while Cha represented mental Dexterity (ability to twist words and manipulate people for Diplomacy and such).
You've never seen videos of skateboarders and their inevitable encounters with rails. The more dexterous you are, the more over confident you are in your agility. Constitution would likely be because you are mostly turning yourself into a wall of meat. Those are not known for being very vocal and well spoken (or to have existed...yet... * ominous thunder clap*)At least, that is the best I could think of.
Personally, I think monk/musket master gunslinger multiclasses seem particularly effective as switch hitters. Besides the range of their weapons, the fact that you do not need to deal with quickdraw to enter into melee is great. It would also make a great strategy for the Monk of the Sacred Mountain, since they get a bonus to AC if they don't move. Just get into a nice defensive position, pick enemies off through full attacks, and wait for the last few survivors to limp over to you. No movement required. Bonus points if you make them climb the entire time to get to you. "Oh, you made it all the way up here. Well, back you go" *kick them off the cliff as they finally make it up*
@ Rynjin:
I personally think of them as:
Strength (Physical Power) = Charisma (Mental Power)
The way a sorcerer or oracle, or other Charisma-based caster feels like they are flavored as basically imposing their mental strength into controlling the powers that they have. Also, force of personality for social skills.
Dexterity (Physical... er... Dexterity) = Intelligence (Mental Dexterity)
The way intelligence is your ability to quickly understand something and figure out how it works, it feels like it goes along with how well one can react and accurately perform somewhat complicated physical tasks (Acrobatics, Disable Device, Stealth all being Dex-Based skills that would require a lot of careful focus, physically).
Constitution (Physical Vitality) = Wisdom (Mental Vitality)
Agreed on this one. Wisdom being a measure of one's willpower and ability to resist influence, the way constitution is one's physical resistance.
That's just personally how I relate the physical and mental scores.
That said, I don't think the Alchemist takes any of this into account and just goes down the line, based on how they are generally ordered.
Str
Dex
Con
Int
Wis
Cha
Done, and done.
You must also take into account the actual gameplay implications of the mutagens though. If you use the strength mutagen, your bombs and extract making would suffer. The increase in AC has the decrease in will power, and already poor save, in return. Constitution adds onto your saves and hp, but makes it harder for you to interact with others (at level 20, the standard Alchemist can use a 20 hour mutagen, so it would come up eventually). Mechanically, it has the least penalty of the three since alchemists are rarely the face (since they might have several), but with discoveries like spontaneous healing around, constitution is mostly valuable to raise fort saves. Also, I know that most PC's use CHA as a dump stat, but that is generally not healthy as it seems like a sign of psychological disorder.
Plus, we might be over thinking the breakdown of mental powers. It always seemed a bit...meh to me. Much harder to quantify and correlate to the physical.
Well, I admit that the physical and mental stats don't necessarily need to line up for any particular reason. It doesn't seem too tough to quantify them in general though.
I picture Intelligence as a person's ability to solve things and learn, basically. Pretty much book smarts. Wisdom as a person's experience, their less rigid thinking, so kind of like street smarts. And Charisma as... well, that one's probably kind of obvious, but their personality and empathy to others, so social skills.
At least, that's how I personally view them. I'm sure other people have different ideas though.
Breaking them down as a correlation to physical stats is just fun too though :P
Yes, because you've been trained to use those three terms. Ingenuity and creativity. Is that a part of one's ability to compute and calculate, or is it from your 'common sense,' or your 'force of will.' You could have an intelligence and wisdom scores of 3 and still be able to be a master bard that can play a violin that makes men fall to their knees in tears of joy, while being completely unable to tape two pieces of paper together. These things are rarely in a vacuum, and viewing them as three separate, independent categories
Even your IQ score is based off of your "CHA." Taller people tend to score better on those tests due to increased confidence. People that do poorly in school often do so because they underestimate their own abilities, which would be because they lack the wisdom to recognize their mistake or the confidence (charisma) to ignore it.
But we are digressing from our main argument. I had better leave this topic before I go into any more half baked philosophy. To the AC!
Well, sure, but the same can be said of the physical stats. Someone who is sickly or otherwise very feeble (low Con) and can't walk around with tripping over their own feet (low Dex) is not likely to be swinging around a massive greatsword, with surprisingly good precision, cutting through monsters like they were nothing (provided they don't get hit that is).
But alright, no more thread diversion then :P