Goblin Squad Member
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Good interview: The background stuff was very cool.
LDG: They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Goblinworks has not told us what game engine you will be using, and we are dying to know. Can you give us any hint at all which game engine Pathfinder Online will be built with? *cough*Cryengine 3*cough*
Ryan Dancey: It won’t be Cryengine.
The selection of our core middleware has been the most frustrating part of the process so far. When we have the ability to finally talk about this, it will be a fascinating story to read. But we’re just not ready yet.
I hope it's not one of those: "Do you want the good news or the bad news, first?" posers: I'd prefer "Do you want the good news or the great news, first?"!
For those of you playing the "which game engine is it?", remember that the middleware requires the ability to manage accounts, etc.
I don't believe that the Cryengine currently does that in and of itself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LDG is a really good podcast in my view, and displays a good sense of humor. Bloodeagle, the host of the show is also guild leader of the Crimson Wing, one of the contributing guilds for Pathfinder Online. It was a mention by Bloodeagle on LDG that led me to make my contribution. I believe they make a new podcast each Friday if I'm not mistaken.
Recommended!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Someone should get a betting pool going!
Well, there is this: Guess the game engine contest!
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@Rafkin - the call was mine, and I made it, yes. We didn't cancel Alternity when we got Star Wars; we cancelled it shortly after I took over in 1999. Dark*Matter was the final nail in the coffin. We gave the line a bar it had to reach in terms of sales, and it didn't reach it, so it had to be cut. Like a lot of stuff that predated Wizards acquisition of TSR, Alternity had a badly broken cost model - a lot of the stuff in that line cost more to produce than it was sold for, unfortunately.
It was a really hard decision but when I took over the tabletop business it was deep in crisis. We had to cut back a lot of products and product lines to make the business make sense. None of them was a pleasure to cut, and all of them left fans in the cold. It was really unfortunate, but it was the right (only) thing to do given the circumstances.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@Rafkin - I've had to end more games than I'd like to remember. It's never an easy decision and there are always people who wonder "what if". But the great thing about hobby gaming is that once published the games never disappear. I bet you could get a group together for a run of Alternity sessions once in a while!
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Goblin Squad Member
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So this is from the interview
The next step will be framing the house. That’s when we start Crowdforging. Framing the house means you make some critical decisions that define the house forever. How many bedrooms? How many bathrooms? What side of the house is the kitchen on? Is the home built to have many floors, or one floor? That process starts when we get to Early Enrollment. Players will be actively engaged directly with the design team as we select features for development, prioritize those features, and balance them. The game at this point is playable but very, very sparse. Lot of systems are placeholders – just a stub of a feature that does not do much except exist.
Then we begin all the interior work. This is what happens near the end of Early Enrollment and the start of Open Enrollment. We’re iterating on these systems over and over, and with each iteration they get more robust and interesting. Connections grow between the various systems as the game knits itself together. The players are helping us figure out the best way to do this – how many monsters do we need? Of what type? How much attention should we spend to the interiors of buildings vs. the landscape? What is more important – detailed animations of characters swinging swords, or detailed animations of characters sitting in chairs?
At every step, these choices are limited by time, resources, developer time and money. We can’t do everything all at once, and some choices mean there are things we have decided never to do.
So the best way to make your voice heard in the Crowdforging process to advocate for what you think is important is to sign up as a Crowdforger Pioneer, Buddy or Guild, and become a part of the conversation as early as possible.
********
So my question is this. We have been told that early enrollment was not a beta, however looking at this early enrollment is looking very very much like a beta. So we are going to have to pay a subscription to play early enrollment, for a game that is very very very sparse and has place holder systems?
If you hold with traditional pricing of 15 bucks a month and the fact that early enrollment is suppose to take 9 months...you are looking at 135 bucks to beta test a game, on top of kickstarter. then add in the fact that most systems are stubs and place holders, you have 9 months to get those working, debugged, and ready for open enrollment?
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@leperkhaun - You can choose to see beta as something you don't want to pay to play in, and that's perfectly understandable.
Or you can see Early Enrollment as an experience unlikely to be replicated in any other MMO you ever play, and see the value in that, and pay to participate.
I know what choice I'd make.
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Goblin Squad Member
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well then what sets it apart from other betas that paying for this beta is something that i want to do?
I mean what kind of response to feedback is PfO going to have that other games did not, since bug finding and feedback are why there are betas.
Because honestly if i am going to pay to beta test, i need to know what in the beta test is worth paying for, more so since the cost is likely to be the same as playing an already full developed game.
what meaningful choices will we as players get to make that will impact the beta. because at the moment there is nothing that looks like "an experience unlikely to be replicated in any other MMO you ever play" but a very good job of marketing a beta to fans.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@leperkaun - That's how mmorpg's should have been developed from the beginning IMO. Your question only needs be: "How much do I personally feel compelled to be part of this particular early community - as opposed to one elsewhere or later?"
For me: This is more exceptional than equivalent cash comparison; your question suggests it's own answer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not really. I dont think paying a subscription for a game that is not ready for release is something that should happen.
More so because people who are going to get into early enrollment are already paying what...at least 100 bucks to do so, so if i pledge at a level to get into early enrollment apperently I feel its worth enough. What I am asking about is what separates PfOs beta from every other beta a MMO has had?
Paying to play a game where systems are not in the game? where there are only place holders where the CEO admits that the game will be "very sparse". Come on now.
Now if he had just said, that early enrollment was another way they could start generating money earlier than release id have no issues with it. the problem is that before early enrollment was not a beta, but more like release. Now its like a full on beta, but one that requires a monthly subscription. the catch is that they are hinting that this beta is not like other betas, I want to know what makes it different. What value is there in me paying for a buggy incomplete game. or rather, after iv already paid enough into it that would get me a collectors edition for another game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not really. I dont think paying a subscription for a game that is not ready for release is something that should happen.
Well if you a Crowdforger Pioneer, nothing prevents you using 1 months worth at the start of early enrolment then saving the remaining 3 months you get until full release.
That way if you are enjoying the game it's worth paying to continue, if you'd rather wait till more features are in you can do that to. :-)
Daniel.
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Not really. I dont think paying a subscription for a game that is not ready for release is something that should happen.
More so because people who are going to get into early enrollment are already paying what...at least 100 bucks to do so, so if i pledge at a level to get into early enrollment apperently I feel its worth enough. What I am asking about is what separates PfOs beta from every other beta a MMO has had?
Paying to play a game where systems are not in the game? where there are only place holders where the CEO admits that the game will be "very sparse". Come on now.
Now if he had just said, that early enrollment was another way they could start generating money earlier than release id have no issues with it. the problem is that before early enrollment was not a beta, but more like release. Now its like a full on beta, but one that requires a monthly subscription. the catch is that they are hinting that this beta is not like other betas, I want to know what makes it different. What value is there in me paying for a buggy incomplete game. or rather, after iv already paid enough into it that would get me a collectors edition for another game.
I think they should call it Delta, instead of Beta.
Some things won't yet be implemented but you won't be bug hunting in the early enrollment either. The early enrollment seems to be more for slowly developing the player community aspects, with a few touch ups and and more complicated things being added.
The game won't be at 100%, but the missing things will be fluff, looks, and complex mechanics, like settlements and such, that really need the player's input.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Not really. I dont think paying a subscription for a game that is not ready for release is something that should happen.
More so because people who are going to get into early enrollment are already paying what...at least 100 bucks to do so, so if i pledge at a level to get into early enrollment apperently I feel its worth enough. What I am asking about is what separates PfOs beta from every other beta a MMO has had?
Paying to play a game where systems are not in the game? where there are only place holders where the CEO admits that the game will be "very sparse". Come on now.
Now if he had just said, that early enrollment was another way they could start generating money earlier than release id have no issues with it. the problem is that before early enrollment was not a beta, but more like release. Now its like a full on beta, but one that requires a monthly subscription. the catch is that they are hinting that this beta is not like other betas, I want to know what makes it different. What value is there in me paying for a buggy incomplete game. or rather, after iv already paid enough into it that would get me a collectors edition for another game.
What MMO have you played on release that had all it's features and no issues?
Also, you have to keep in mind that "very sparse" in a sandbox MMO means that there aren't a bunch of player settlements, etc as the main aspect of gameplay is community created not *grindfest* content like you see in theme park MMO's.
So in my eye, you're paying a subscription (just like you would in any standard MMO release - which should generally still be in a *beta* stage) to help build a community and get a jump start on building content for all the other players to come behind you. Additionally, you get to have a voice in what are the key things to be developed next, what are the things that they should be focusing on rather then just sitting back and seeing where things go (which may or may not be for the best). Finally, with a phased early roll out *if* there are major bugs or even minor ones, they are going to be easier to track and hammer out without having extreme, lasting effects on the game.
The folks over at Link Dead gaming just posted an interview with Ryan Dancey. Here is the link:
http://www.linkdeadgaming.com/20-questions-with-ryan-dancey-from-goblinwork s-about-pathfinder-online/
very good interview session, a lot of it is stuff that has already been said before, but some of it had a lot more detailed answers to some common questions, or better phrased answers. some nice fun thrown into. I actually learned a lot about Mr. Dancey in that 20 question session i was not aware of before. Hopefully this will help get more backers on board.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as, "will our opinions during beta really matter or is this just marketing", nobody can answer that. I choose to believe, based on the current level of dev/player interaction, that GW will indeed take your suggestion to heart.
However, even in the worse case scenario and GW ignores everything you say during beta, it will still be a unique experience because as an early player you will be creating the content for Open Release. It will be your settlements they join, it will be your crafted goods they buy, it will be you that helps set the tone of the game.
Are the settlements all getting along and we're building a utopian world or are they all at war fighting for land. The early players will decide things like this.
well then what sets it apart from other betas that paying for this beta is something that i want to do?
I mean what kind of response to feedback is PfO going to have that other games did not, since bug finding and feedback are why there are betas.
Because honestly if i am going to pay to beta test, i need to know what in the beta test is worth paying for, more so since the cost is likely to be the same as playing an already full developed game.
what meaningful choices will we as players get to make that will impact the beta. because at the moment there is nothing that looks like "an experience unlikely to be replicated in any other MMO you ever play" but a very good job of marketing a beta to fans.
I too had reservations about this, several people actualy witnessed me act a fool on the forums awhile back becase of this very thing. then i did some research, reread some things, and thought back on all the mmos that have come out in the past 10 years (most of which i have beta tested)
While i am not naive enough to believe we will not have to squash bugs, i do believe we wont be on a massive crusade to do so. Those alpha testers paid 1000 to get there, they are probably going to care more about making sure no bugs make it through then the people that get paid to test in other mmmo's for this one very simple reason, if they are not on the ball, and let to many things slip by, that 1000 was a huge waste and poor investment due to bad press which could lead to a poor impression of a game i vividly remember what happened with SWTOR ):
the part in bold... "an experience unlikely to be replicated in any other MMO you ever play" you will actually be able to help direct the games future, its features, not just stress test the server and bug hunt and test features, Most of the 20 something betas i have been in was never about working with the community and the development team to create something to be proud of. it was nothing more then bug squashing. This will not be that way. We may not get to name things but we probably will get to vote on how things look, definitely get to guide what gets worked on first ( perfect example of this is the current vote for which of the races gets added next) and dictate how certain thigs should act or work. ( Mr. Dancey, please correct me if i am wrong on any of this.) Ohh and everything we do during those months of early enrollment stays with us. no server wipes barring any emergencies, and honestly, if there is a server wipe due to something extreme, I fully expect GW would be more then willing to set us back up as we were prior to the wipe if possible, or otherwise compensate us.
maybe this is not for you, and while I hate the idea of paying for a unfinished product I am all to happy to do back and pay a monthly fee for this because its almost like an investment for me, maybe its the would be game developer in me, and the DM in me making me view it this way, but damn man am I all to excited for this now, the chance to have a real say in how my chosen game is developed instead of just having to take what is thrown at me and repeatedly getting slapped in the face by other games. The chance to become a founding member of a close knit community and watch the game grow with us. I have not felt anything close to what I fell for PFO and its early access since I started playing star wars galaxies during its infancy.
@leperkhaun - You can choose to see beta as something you don't want to pay to play in, and that's perfectly understandable.
Or you can see Early Enrollment as an experience unlikely to be replicated in any other MMO you ever play, and see the value in that, and pay to participate.
I know what choice I'd make.
The choice I made with my significant other, crowd forger pioneer buddy with print pack addon i would hope lol.
all joking aside. GW has made some very lofty goals of this project going into early enrollment stage, and admittedly a lot of people will be skeptical.
The fact what is achieved during those 9 months of early enrollment is staying with us once open enrollment starts and we are the founding members of the kingdoms, guilds, towns, and first providers of goods to the open public, as well as the inevitable Goblin Works to player, player to player, relationship that will be forged is something one sometimes simply can not get the full idea of without having time to really let it soak in on a deeper level philosophically. we are trying to revolutionize the entire genre and industry, so when I really think about it, this is video game history in the making. Then the fact that some of the most influential people, and most important creators of table top RPG products since Gary Gygax are involved in one way or another. People responsible for some of my favorite white wolf, TSR, and Wizards products are involved, and I get to see it from day one and watch it evolve... that is just to much for me to pass up. Yes, all of the aforementioned is the value i see in paying to participate in this.
@All - and lest we forget: Emerald Spire, a bunch of miniatures, a novel, a soundtrack, four months of subscription time, the client software, etc. The value of a Pioneer or higher pledge is much more than $100 already ... And we're not done yet!
please tell me your about to unveil a colossal Miniature! or a very nice paldin suit of fullplate for dailey rewards.
Also, do you ever sleep?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please tell me you're about to unveil a colossal miniature!
I think a lot of people have been waiting for a colossal green dragon. If one was added (and exclusive to the KS backers for a year or two), that could really get things climbing more quickly over there. I'm thinking a 1.1 million stretch goal would be a suitable target, but of course, it would need to be revealed before we actually get to that point.
Please tell me you're about to unveil a colossal miniature!I think a lot of people have been waiting for a colossal green dragon. If one was added (and exclusive to the KS backers for a year or two), that could really get things climbing more quickly over there. I'm thinking a 1.1 million stretch goal would be a suitable target, but of course, it would need to be revealed before we actually get to that point.
yeah, i am curious what the post 1 million stretch goals are. as is i am afraid we are going to barely hit the funding goal, its looking like it is going to be tight race.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I expect the funding curve to look much like Project Godus. I hope the upturn at the end is more pronounced, but it seems typical that people wait for the reminder email 48 hours from the end to donate.