|
| 11 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tower Shield Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a tower shield specialist gains armor training as normal, but while he employs a tower shield, the armor penalty is reduced by 3 and the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2....
The grammar of the wording (e.g., "his armor") implies the increased maximum Dexterity bonus allowed applies to all of his armor and not just the tower shield (i.e., if his DEX were 14 and he were wearing full plate + tower shield, he'd pick up a point of AC at 3rd) -- is this correct?
Tower Shield Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a tower shield specialist gains armor training as normal, but while he employs a tower shield, the armor penalty is reduced by 3 and the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2....
The grammar of the wording (e.g., "his armor") implies the increased maximum Dexterity bonus allowed applies to all of his armor and not just the tower shield (i.e., if his DEX were 14 and he were wearing full plate + tower shield, he'd pick up a point of AC at 3rd) -- is this correct?
Seeing as tower shield is the only shield with a max dex limit, it'd say this limit overrides the armor dex limit and the wording applies only to the shield.
Imo; shield possibly slows you down.
The feat makes you become more agile in using it's.
I have to disagree with Tyki11 on this.
The wording specifically says "gains armor training as normal".
The only change is an added perk when using a tower shield, but nothing is taken away. It never occurred to me before that you also reduce a shield armor check penalty, but Tower Shield Training clearly seems to indicate that you normally would, only that now you get an added bonus with this particular archetype.
The wording implies that you might only get the "added" benefits for the tower shield only while still gaining the normal benefits for you armor. However, the wording doesn't clarify it and as far as I can tell by RAW you apple the "added" bonus to both. Though, that may not be the intent.
In the end, you clearly at a minimum get the normal armor training benefits as per usual, with the bonus being up in the air if it applies to the suit of armor as well.
|
|
Given that the ability increases steadily with level, whereas a tower shield has a static DEX limit, that was my conclusion as well -- so yeah, you can finally play a high-DEX character in full-plate who isn't a touch-AC pincushion. (Your damage output takes a serious hit, and that's a fair trade-off to keep this archetype from being broken.)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have to disagree with Tyki11 on this.
The wording specifically says "gains armor training as normal".
The only change is an added perk when using a tower shield, but nothing is taken away. It never occurred to me before that you also reduce a shield armor check penalty, but Tower Shield Training clearly seems to indicate that you normally would, only that now you get an added bonus with this particular archetype.
The wording implies that you might only get the "added" benefits for the tower shield only while still gaining the normal benefits for you armor. However, the wording doesn't clarify it and as far as I can tell by RAW you apple the "added" bonus to both. Though, that may not be the intent.
In the end, you clearly at a minimum get the normal armor training benefits as per usual, with the bonus being up in the air if it applies to the suit of armor as well.
My intent in writing it was for it to apply to both, but that is not an official clarification of RAW.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok here is my thought on this.
You have a 3rd level fighter with the Archetype Tower Shield Specialist, he had Brestplate armor Which gives Armor Bonus +6, Max Dex +3, Armor Check Penalty -4, you add a Tower Shield Armor Bonus +4, Max Dex +2, Armor Check Penalty -10.
This all adds up to Armor Bonus +10, Max Dex +2 ACP -14.
Adding in the Tower shield Specialist bonus at 3rd level you should have.
Armor Bonus +10, Max Dex +5, ACP -10.
Here's how it breaks down.
Max Dex goes from +2 (base) +2 (TSS) +1 (AT) total +5
ACP goes from -14 (base) -3 (TSS) -1 AT) total -10
This is the way I see it as the shield and the armor are COMBINED for the total results and not individual results.
|
|
| 9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bump to remind Paizo to include a FAQ question regarding this at some point. E.g.,
Q. Does Tower Shield Training's "the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2" refer only to armor alone, to the tower shield's maximum dexterity bonus, or to both (i.e., granting a tower shield a +4 maximum dexterity bonus at 3rd as well as raising, say, full-plate's from +1 to +3)?
A. ....
Bumping. Need FAQ answer, my dm likes things by the RAW so I need to know if this is worth trying to play.
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Bump to remind Paizo to include a FAQ question regarding this at some point. E.g.,
Q. Does Tower Shield Training's "the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2" refer only to armor alone, to the tower shield's maximum dexterity bonus, or to both (i.e., granting a tower shield a +4 maximum dexterity bonus at 3rd as well as raising, say, full-plate's from +1 to +3)?
I second that. I would love to know if a Dex 16 fighter with Full Plate (Max Dex +1) at 3rd level would have only +2 because of standard Armor Training or if wearing a Tower Shield would increase the Full Plate allowed Max Dex to +3.
It seems implied that the Tower Shield would change it's Max Dex to +4.
Developers, please chime in when you get some free time. -Thanks!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does Tower Shield Training's "the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2" refer only to armor alone, to the tower shield's maximum dexterity bonus, or to both (i.e., granting a tower shield a +4 maximum dexterity bonus at 3rd as well as raising, say, full-plate's from +1 to +3)?
As it were, I discovered the results of this question. Right in the pages of the Core Rulebook, page 150 it says:
Shields: Shields do not affect a character’s maximum Dexterity bonus, except for tower shields.
Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, both armor check penalties apply.
Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, add the two numbers together to get a single arcane spell failure chance.
So Basically it adds (or Restricts) to the least favorable combination. obviously the spirit is to make these amounts inclusive.
Only Full Plate: AC 19 = +9 Armor, Max Dex +1, Armor Check -5.
So if you add a Tower Shield: AC 23 = +9 Armor +4 Shield, Max Dex +1, Armor Check -15.
So our 16 Dex Tower Shield Specialist would have AC 26 = +3 Dex +9 Armor +4 Shield, Max Dex +3, Armor Check -12
At best, by spending 10,000 for all Mithral and 20 Dex AC 28 = +5 Dex +9 Armor +4 Shield, Max Dex +5, Armor Check -6 (because it is a sum of the penalties, you get twice the reduction in ACP from both items)
Mangon had it right the whole time. Kudos!