Reach Fighter, Damage + Trip


Advice


I need some help with a fighter build. I'm definitely going with a reach weapon, and while I do want to be good at tripping, the priority is pulping opponents. Since I expect to get AoO's fairly often, I want to make sure my single hit damage is high.

Here's my current draft of the build (15 point buy)

Race Human
Class Fighter (Two-Handed)
STR 15(17)
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 7
Racial Traits Bonus Feat, Skilled
Traits Reactionary, Eyes and Ears of the City
Weapon Lucerne Hammer

Level Feats
1 Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus
2 Combat Expertise
3 Improved Trip
4 Weapon Specialization
5 Fury's Fall
6 Felling Smash
7 Greater Trip
8 Furious Focus
9 Iron Will
10 Greater Weapon Focus
11 Toughness
12 Greater Weapon Specialization
13 Penetrating Strike
14 Undermining Exploit
15 Vital Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike

I welcome all advice, but especially on the following:

Which fighter archetype would be best for this build? Vanilla, Polearm master, Two-handed?

Is it worth spending the feat on EXP to get a fauchard?

Are there better feats to take for this build, or an order that would be better?


i like the Spear Dancer Feat...not advice so much as something to look at


Initiative is not as important for you, a trait that gives you boosts to saves or some other benefit might be better than Reactionary. (although many might disagree with me on this.) If you were going straight up on your trip prowess, I would start with a Guisarme, do Heirloom weapon (for a +2 bonus to trip with that weapon that stacks). Because of that you can have a +4 with your weapon at level one, with stackables from there. There is a spell that can turn a mundane weapon into a Masterwork weapon, and you can enchant it from there.

EWP for Fauchard is a good idea if you want to capitalize on Critical feats, otherwise, just stick with the martials.

The Polearm Master is good for using your main weapon up close, which can also be mitigated somewhat with the nimble moves feat. With a reach weapon it is almost better to let them charge you, make them eat an AoO and then have fun with a 5' step and a full attack. Or just trip them and deny any melee they can do against you at all.

Both Archetypes have their advantages, but you are going to want to invest in Mithral if you want to ever wear heavy armor.


Vuvu wrote:
i like the Spear Dancer Feat...not advice so much as something to look at

Hmm. Doesn't seem worth it. Dazzled just gives -1 to your opponent's attack. Is it worth swapping out another feat for it?


If you want to use a reach weapon you´ll almost have to go polearm master except if you use a spiked chain.There is a reason why reach weapons other than the spiked chain a rarely seen at tables, its because they are akward to use if an enemy closes with you you have to move away or switch weapons.But the polearm master removes this problem. Fauchard is the best reach weapon and fighters can spare the feat.


Oterisk wrote:
Initiative is not as important for you, a trait that gives you boosts to saves or some other benefit might be better than Reactionary. (although many might disagree with me on this.) If you were going straight up on your trip prowess, I would start with a Guisarme, do Heirloom weapon (for a +2 bonus to trip with that weapon that stacks).

Nice! I missed the +2 CMB benefit. Why guisarme though?

Quote:
EWP for Fauchard is a good idea if you want to capitalize on Critical feats, otherwise, just stick with the martials.

I'm just not sure on the balance. If I take feats to make the criticals more effective, I'll be pushing back trip feats for awhile -- unless criticals are worth pushing back weapon focus/specialization.


Elewan wrote:
Vuvu wrote:
i like the Spear Dancer Feat...not advice so much as something to look at
Hmm. Doesn't seem worth it. Dazzled just gives -1 to your opponent's attack. Is it worth swapping out another feat for it?

I like it. Everyone you hit basically buffs everyones AC around them. I also like the flash behind it. Certainly not optimal but fun


Heirloom does not work with exotic weapons, so guisarme is the only way to go for a martial reach trip weapon.

If you go Fauchard, you get more damage, but less tripping ability. It is just the way it works. The fauchard though has a really great crit range, and the trip ability combined with reach. It is one of my favorite EWP. The Critical feats are fun, but with the new assault feats, they can do pretty much the same thing more frequently.


Oterisk wrote:
Heirloom does not work with exotic weapons, so guisarme is the only way to go for a martial reach trip weapon.

Oh, new ruling says that you can use any weapon with trip, and the only thing that the trip feature does is let you drop the weapon instead of falling if you fail by 10 or more. That's why I've got the Lucerne Hammer listed for the weapon.


Elewan wrote:
Oterisk wrote:
Heirloom does not work with exotic weapons, so guisarme is the only way to go for a martial reach trip weapon.
Oh, new ruling says that you can use any weapon with trip, and the only thing that the trip feature does is let you drop the weapon instead of falling if you fail by 10 or more. That's why I've got the Lucerne Hammer listed for the weapon.

Well, I guess I am a little behind the times. The hammer is a great option then, just be sure to carry backup weapons for when you roll teh inevitable natural 1.

Dark Archive

Bred for War is a Shanti racial feat that gives you +1 to your CMB - and you can use it with a Fauchard.

My light-armor tripping build (20 pt build):

Half-Elf Lore Warden/Master of Many Styles
S:19 D:14 C:13 I:13 W:10 C:7

Traits: Bred for War. Reactionary

1) LW1 - EWP: Fauchard (Half-Elf), Toughness, Weapon Focus
2) LW 2 - Combat Expertise (LW bonus), Improved Trip
3) MoMS1 Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Fuse Styles, Dragon Style, Tiger Style
4) LW3 - +2 to CMB/CMD
5) MoMS2 - Tiger Pounce, Power Attack; Evasion
6) LW4 - Combat Reflexes
7) LW5 - Greater Trip; Weapon Training +1/+1
8) LW6 - Fury's Fall
9) LW7 - Improved Crit (Fauchard); +4 to CMB/CMD
10) LW8 Greater Weapon Focus: Fauchard
11) LW9 FEAT?; Weapon Training +2/+2

Pretty decent saves (w/ the Monk levels), good trip bonuses, versatility to use unarmed strikes if you can't get far enough away to use the Fauchard. AC sucks.


Another way to circumvent the problems you might have when people manage to get close would be to take the Phalanx Soldier archetype. It's not super-optimised when you look at all the abilities, but it does one great thing: it allows you to use polearms one-handed, so you can reach-trip your opponents as usual (okay, with 1x str-mod to damage instead of 1.5) and when someone gets close, you bash them back to where they were with your shield.

There are one or two threads dedicated to that archetype in this forum somewhere.

Dark Archive

Elewan wrote:
Oterisk wrote:
Heirloom does not work with exotic weapons, so guisarme is the only way to go for a martial reach trip weapon.
Oh, new ruling says that you can use any weapon with trip, and the only thing that the trip feature does is let you drop the weapon instead of falling if you fail by 10 or more. That's why I've got the Lucerne Hammer listed for the weapon.

But it also says you can use apply any bonuses (from w. focus, masterwork etc.) your weapon has to you CMB when making trip attack, IF your weapon has trip feature.

Therefore it is very good to have a weapon with trip feature, if you want to make a lot of trip attacks.

Dark Archive

I have just looked at the most recent FAQ and it seems the rules have been changed on this issue since I last looked, so forget what I just posted...


Take a whip, TWF, whilrwind attack, lunge and combat reflexes, then trip everyone in reach 20 and AoO them.

Dark Archive

Horsechopper 10 gp 1d8(s) 1d10(m) critx3 12 lbs. P or S reach, trip

innerworls sea guide. my favorite martial tripping weapon

Liberty's Edge

Hayato Ken wrote:
Take a whip, TWF, whilrwind attack, lunge and combat reflexes, then trip everyone in reach 20 and AoO them.

Nice idea, but a couple of issues with it:

Whips don't, normally, get AoOs.

And if they are down at 20' away, due to Lunge, you can't even get an AoO with Imporoved Whip Mastery oin 'em when they stand up. IWM only gives you AoOs out to 10' for a medium character.

Besides, I would rather go for Power Attack and use the whip two-handed as of 5th level, when you can get the IWM feat and therefore get AoOs with it. My whip wielder will do something like 1d3+7 lethal or non-lethal at will with it.


Yes right, but you can still take combat patrol.

Another of my ideas is going to greater whip mastery, improved grapple, chokehold and then add strangler. If you take a rogue or ninja, its pretty cool. Grapple from 20 feet away and deal sneak attack on enemy spellcaster, who can´t cast anymore. Only its so feat intensive.

For this spring attack and whirlwind attack is also pretty cool.
You can of course trip all, sneak attack all.
But also you can effectively kite with spring attack, since you can hide on a move action. You only get one attack, but you deal sneak attack.
Just take hips or hellcat stealth or buy a wand of blur. You will be like always 35 feet away from the enemy.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Elewan wrote:

Here's my current draft of the build (15 point buy)

Race Human
Class Fighter (Two-Handed)
STR 15(17)
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 7
Racial Traits Bonus Feat, Skilled
Traits Reactionary, Eyes and Ears of the City
Weapon Lucerne Hammer

Starting stats (Starting with a base Con lower then 14. Is a bad idea for any one that knows they are going to get hit. And yes one hit point per level makes a difference.)

Fighter (Lore Warden)
Str 15(17)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 7
Traits:
Argus the Slayer wrote:
Bred for War is a Shanti racial feat that gives you +1 to your CMB - and you can use it with a Fauchard.

This is one of the best traits for this kind of build.

Oterisk wrote:
EWP for Fauchard is a good idea.

The best reach weapon is the Fauchard. Followed by the Guisarme and the lucerne Hammer comes in dead last. After the first few levels the dice size dose not mean much the threat range and multiplier do.

EWP Fauchard 1D10 18-20/x2 Reach, Trip
Glaive-Guisarme 1D10 20/x3 Brace, Reach
Lucerne Hammer 1D12 20/x2 Brace, Reach

Lore Warden
You do lose medium and heavy armor proficence. For me this is not a big deal as most of my fighters never use that kind of armor in favor of mobility. You might not want to give up the heaver armor.
Now the reason for the lore warden.
Expertise (Ex)
At 2nd level, a lore warden gains Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if he would not normally qualify for this feat.
Maneuver Mastery (Ex)
At 3rd level, a lore warden gains a +2 bonus on all CMB checks and to his CMD. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, and +8 at 15th level.

1: Power Attack, Exotic Weapon proficence: Fauchard, Weapon Focus: Fauchard.
2: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
3: Combat Reflexes
4: Weapon Specialization: Fauchard
5: Furouse Focus
6: Greater Trip
7: Felling Smash
8: Improved Critical: Fauchard
9: Greater Weapon Focus: Fauchard
10: Tripping Strike


Respect. That´s a great build.

Liberty's Edge

Hayato Ken wrote:
Respect. That´s a great build.

Unfortunately, it is NOT a legal build.

Wish it were, but Improved Trip explicitly requires BOTH Combat Expertise and a minimum Int of 13, so that kills it at 2nd level, since he would still have an Int of 12 at that time.

Greater Trip, as well, requires that Int 13.

Silver Crusade

Just trade the Dex 14, and Int 12 for Dex 12 Int 14. Problem solved you still get combat expertise as a bonus feet. And you get the bonus to CMB.


Cool. Nice build. I hate losing the extra AoO though.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Reach Fighter, Damage + Trip All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice