I'm currently creating an Athamaru (fish-kin) Deep Sea Diver Metal Kineticist and am considering taking the Barbarian Archetype at level 4, selecting the Elemental Instict (Metal), and the Instinct Ability Archetype feat at level 6, which has some very good features: you are permitted to use any Impulses with the Concentrate trait if it shares an element with your chosen instinct element; this implies that you can use any impulse action or other action that lacks the Concentrate trait regardless of it's element, ir lack thereof. You also increase your Rage damage bonus from 2 to 4, and deal a damage type of your chosen element.
At level 8, I would take the Basic Fury feat for the Barbarian Class feat: Raging Thrower. This feat allows Thrown weapon attacks to gain a bonus to their damage equal to your Rage damage bonus. Crucially, the feat never makes mention of the Strike action, which makes me believe that any Thrown weapon attack taken as part of any action would gain the Rage damage bonus.
The question, then, is this: does the Weapon Infusion ability, choosing the Ranged: Thrown option, create an actual weapon that is then thrown with the subsequent Elemental Blast? If so, it would seem that Raging Thrower would allow a Kineticist to add their Rage damage to Elemental Blast under these conditions. This would extremely good, scaling up every four levels to 5d8+5 Con+5 Strength+4 Rage for a 2-action Elemental Blast, and 5d8+5 Strength+4 Rage for a 1-action Elemental Blast.
While you are correct that Raging Thrower works with any thrown weapon, this doesn't work. Weapon Infusion (despite its name and as you'd likely suspected from your question) does not provide a weapon, only a weapon-shape & mechanics to your Elemental Blast. Throwing remains excellent though because of full Str to damage...which is about all one should expect given PF2's power curves.
I could see a lenient GM allowing it, but I wouldn't accept it for my own PC. The whole Barbarian MCD Archetype is fairly useless for you, as are most martial MCDs & Combat Style Archetypes. Ones that help non-Strike aspects still work well, like for armor or shields maybe even some w/ maneuvers if you're already using those (but not well enough to change direction if you aren't).
I wasn't entirel sure that that much damage on was within acceptable limits, but it never hurts to ask.
The Athamaru Heritage I selected grants built-in Medium (Half Plate) armor, which fits a deep sea huntswoman nicely, so I'm now considering the Champion Archetype. Armor training would actually go nicely with my Heritage. (the Champion Archetype doesn't get martial weapon training, but I do get to consider my chosen deity's weapon a simple weapon)
Castilliano has it right, your idea is a no-go. If you're looking at kineticist as your class and trying to boost EB, look at Desert Wind. A DW build won't give you the outright damage of an all-fire build, but for boosting EB after about L10, it's hard to beat. Even so, it never combos with strikes or strike effects, because it isn't one.
Also as a minor note - to answer some questions that weren't asked but were assumed in a way that is incorrect:
With primary class Kineticist and Barbarian Archetype, you don't get the Instinct ability to use Impulses while Raging until you take Instinct Ability at level 6+. Until then, you don't have the Elemental Instinct Ability - which is what allows using Impulses while Raging.
Also, regardless of which class is the base class, the Elemental Barbarian Instinct Ability does require that the element matches in order to allow the Barbarian to use the Impulse while Raging.
Elemental Instinct Ability wrote: If you have any kineticist impulses with the same element type as the one you chose for your instinct, such as ones gained by taking the Kineticist Dedication multiclass feat, you can use them while raging even if they have the concentrate trait.
Don't invest in making your chosen deity's weapon simple, or more usable, or whatnot. At the earliest levels, it's barely competitive (perhaps a bump better at 4th w/ a Striking weapon while EB doesn't get a 2nd die until 5th). But Kineticists are not martials and do not get the early Weapon Specialization or Proficiency to make any of that worth it if planning for the long run. You'll have better options, and taking feats to increase your Strike options is struggling to keep even to the impact your class gives you for free.
Not saying to avoid Champion MCD though! If you have the Cha, it'll grant access to lots of non-Strike useful abilities that can flesh out your options, esp. that good Reaction which most Kineticists lack.
I do like the idea of the Champion. The deity Onos combines both Metal and Water, and the Obedience Cause fits nicely with Onos and my Ancestry. The Reaction fits a potential future Matriarch quite nicely, and the Armor training is a definite boon.
As to the weapon, Onos prefers the Chakram; while the Impulses are always clearly better, it is never a bad idea to have an extra weapon on hand just in case.
Tendra.Calrissian wrote: I do like the idea of the Champion. The deity Onos combines both Metal and Water, and the Obedience Cause fits nicely with Onos and my Ancestry. The Reaction fits a potential future Matriarch quite nicely, and the Armor training is a definite boon.
As to the weapon, Onos prefers the Chakram; while the Impulses are always clearly better, it is never a bad idea to have an extra weapon on hand just in case.
Flavor-wise, you can have your blasts look any way you want. Have your EBs be chakrams. There's no mechanical benefit but it's a way to personalize them based on your theme/archetype.
"As to the weapon, Onos prefers the Chakram; while the Impulses are always clearly better, it is never a bad idea to have an extra weapon on hand just in case."
Cool image, but as Easl says, simply make your EB look like a chakram and you're good. Wait, I mean great as compared to using an actual chakram.
It's not the extra weapon that's bad idea, it's the investment into said weapon that's the bad idea. Sure, carry a chakram for flavor, but the only "just in case" instance is if there's no magic...which would also make your chakram useless since it wouldn't return. To make a chakram functional, it'd take gold (better spent elsewhere) & Dex as good as your Con (which it shouldn't be in medium armor). So yeah, carrying a chakram's about as useful drawing your deity's emblem on your armor, more cool than practical.
Also unsure why you think the latter part of this is true: "the Champion Archetype doesn't get martial weapon training, but I do get to consider my chosen deity's weapon a simple weapon". The Champion MCD does not do this. It only gives you what's listed under the MCD, not what's listed under the class (which BTW also does not do this). And again, any investment to gain proficiency in the chakram only adds flavor. You don't need to rationalize flavor choices, PF2 is generous that way. But you aren't getting anything else pursuing chakram use.
BTW, Coral Athamaru does not provide medium armor proficiency, only the medium armor itself. So you kinda need to take an Archetype for that at 2nd, or the General Feat at 3rd. That'll make 1st level difficult w/ such a low AC & -2 ACP.
Castilliano wrote: the only "just in case" instance is if there's no magic...which would also make your chakram useless since it wouldn't return. To make a chakram functional, it'd take gold (better spent elsewhere) & Dex as good as your Con (which it shouldn't be in medium armor). There's some premaster critters with spell immunity. A backup weapon on a kineticist is good for them, at least at early levels. The other reason I've seen it taken is for range; a crossbow goes farther than any EB. Use it round 1, then drop it as they move into range. However if OP is taking Weapon Infusion, then "I need a long range option" shouldn't be much of a factor.
I don't see the cost of making a chakram returning or keeping it up on runes as too much of an issue. Kineticists don't have a lot of equipment needs; if OP wants to trick out their backup weapon, its probably within budget. Though I'd consider a Thrower's Bandoleer instead. Also maybe think about Plate In Treasure impulse if they want to regularly strike with it rather than blasting.
This is my first delve into Pathfinder, and it is my first character, so I'm bound to get things wrong.
As to the Armor training, first level will be rough, but Ranged combat should be safe enough until I pick up the Champion archetype.
As to the deity's weapon proficiency, you are correct. I was looking through Cleric feats, just in case I wanted to take that archetype, and transposed the Deadly Simplicity feat to the Champion list. DS doesn't even help here, as it only works if you deity prefers an unarmed strike or simple weapon, or you have training with their prefered weapon, and it doesn't grant proficiency.
I'll have to swap my +2 Wisdom for +2 Charisma, so I'm not sure I'll have any really useful skills, especially if I don't optimize my skills for Charisma, so I might have room for the Weapon Proficiency feat, but even with a limited selection of available, and useful, general feats, that's a big investment for a weapon I'll not use often.
Like I said, this is my first foray into such a choice-abundant rule set, so I will misread things and get things wrong, and make sub-optimal choices.
Tendra.Calrissian wrote: Like I said, this is my first foray into such a choice-abundant rule set, so I will misread things and get things wrong, and make sub-optimal choices. Fortunately, for the most part, a character with some suboptimal choices is still rather playable.
You have to really know what you are doing and try pretty hard to get a character that is going to be a drag on the team.
There are other Archetypes to get the armor (Guardian or Sentinel) which don't require reworking your stats or skill choices (which Kineticists have few enough of to take full advantage of Cha). I value Wisdom a lot, even more on a class with low Will saves & poor Perception. Save the Champion MCD (Multi-Class Dedication) ideas for a PC that can benefit more from Holy Strikes and Cha.
Ranged combat will not necessarily be "safe enough" at first level. It'll depend a lot on party composition, the encounters themselves, and plain ol' luck. That Heritage is kind of a deadly trap if you lack the proficiency. The questions are how much support your party can provide to prevent that trap from killing you and how deadly is the campaign already. In a whimsical homebrew, maybe the Beginner's Box or some modules, have at it. In an AP, especially an early one, count on dropping (which in PF2 isn't so bad if y'all have unlimited out-of-combat healing.)
Finoan wrote: Tendra.Calrissian wrote: Like I said, this is my first foray into such a choice-abundant rule set, so I will misread things and get things wrong, and make sub-optimal choices. Fortunately, for the most part, a character with some suboptimal choices is still rather playable. Yeah particularly for the kineticist. Just keep Con at max and all your offensive abilities will mostly take care of themselves. Then it's your choice of Dex for Ref/AC, Wis for Wil/Init/Medicine, Cha for social skills, Str Heavier armor/melee Blast damage, etc.
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