As the title sugests, I am debating whether to take the Dual-Cursed archetype on a Lore Oracle (to boost my offensive capabilities on an otherwise mostly utility focused mystery), or if it would be better to pick something else (and possibly stock up on Fate's Shears to get "Misfortune" that way).
My issue mostly comes down to the fact that the Dual-Cursed strips me of my Mystery skills (all Knowledge skills except for History, Planes and Religion. I guess I also lose Appraise, but I don't really care about it), which seems like a bit of a problem for a Mystery that focuses on knowledge skills and divination. I was going to mitigate this problem by a) using one of my traits to buy back either Knowledge(Nature) or Knowledge(Arcana), and b) getting the Spirit Ridden feat (to be clear, the main reason I'm grabbing the feat is obviously for the floating maxed out skill, since Oracles don't get that many skill ranks. That it also helps with the class skill issue is more of a nice-to-have). Still, the fact that my mystery and my archetype are working against each other is giving me second thoughts and I was hoping for a second opinion.
What two curses did you plan to take? The way the oracles curse works is that you get all the negative aspects at 1st level gain benefits as you level up. Being one of the curses does not gain abilities as you level up means you get double the negatives without gaining anymore abilities. Depending on the curse that could be a steep price to pay.
The Archetype changes your mystery spells, but two of the spells (Oracles Burden and Bestow Curse) are on the oracle spell list, so can be chosen using your normal spells known. Ill Omen is the only thing you are really gaining that cannot be easily added. If your race grants you extra spells known that makes the alternate spells less valuable.
The extra revelations are nice, but the lore mystery has only two offensive revelations. If you really want those extra revelations, you can always spend a feat on Extra Revelations.
The lore mystery has several revelations that boost knowledge skills. But unless you are trained in the knowledge skill you cannot even attempt a roll unless the DC higher than 10. So, in order to take advantage of the revelations you need to put at least a point into any knowledge skills you think you might use. In all honesty you will want at least a point into each knowledge skill eventually. If you plan to take lore keeper that means that point will probably be giving you at least a +8 bonus before any bonus from other sources assuming it is a class skill.
Focused Trance allows you to gain a +20-circumstance bonus to a single INT based skill (any knowledge skill) a number of times per day equal to you CHA modifier. Assuming you are trained in the knowledge skill that is way better than gaining ranks equal to you character level and treating the knowledge skill as a class skill once per day.
Combining Lore Master and Focused trance you should easily be able to make any knowledge skill you are trained in. If it is a class skill that gives you an additional +3.
I would not bother with the archetype for an oracle of lore. You are giving up too much for too little return. Gaining a single non-oracle spell is not worth losing the class skill bonus on 7 skills.
What two curses did you plan to take? The way the oracles curse works is that you get all the negative aspects at 1st level gain benefits as you level up. Being one of the curses does not gain abilities as you level up means you get double the negatives without gaining anymore abilities. Depending on the curse that could be a steep price to pay.
The Archetype changes your mystery spells, but two of the spells (Oracles Burden and Bestow Curse) are on the oracle spell list, so can be chosen using your normal spells known. Ill Omen is the only thing you are really gaining that cannot be easily added. If your race grants you extra spells known that makes the alternate spells less valuable.
The extra revelations are nice, but the lore mystery has only two offensive revelations. If you really want those extra revelations, you can always spend a feat on Extra Revelations.
The lore mystery has several revelations that boost knowledge skills. But unless you are trained in the knowledge skill you cannot even attempt a roll unless the DC higher than 10. So, in order to take advantage of the revelations you need to put at least a point into any knowledge skills you think you might use. In all honesty you will want at least a point into each knowledge skill eventually. If you plan to take lore keeper that means that point will probably be giving you at least a +8 bonus before any bonus from other sources assuming it is a class skill.
Focused Trance allows you to gain a +20-circumstance bonus to a single INT based skill (any knowledge skill) a number of times per day equal to you CHA modifier. Assuming you are trained in the knowledge skill that is way better than gaining ranks equal to you character level and treating the knowledge skill as a class skill once per day.
Combining Lore Master and Focused trance you should easily be able to make any knowledge skill you are trained in. If it is a class skill that gives you an additional +3.
I would not bother with the archetype for an oracle of...
I intended to go with either Haunted or Possessed for the advancing curse, and then Tongues for the non-advancing one. I would be taking both Misfortune and Fortune revelations from the archetype, rather than using the extra slots for more Lore revelations, Misfortune is basically the main reason I'm looking at the Dual-Cursed in the first place (although like I mentioned, there's Fate's Shears as an alternative). And of course I would be putting one rank in each Knowledge skill I'm not focusing on (in addition to full ranks in those that I do focus on), so that they're all trained.
hmmm, you are aware of the issues...
I'd suggest;
1) human Paladin 2 Oracle(war) X-2 for a oracle melee build with the extra HP & SklPt per Lvl. You can choose a different mystery.
2) human Wiz-Dvnr 1 Oracle X-1 to snag the arcane spell list and know skills freeing up your mystery & traits.Arcanist requires 2 Lvls and Witch is not appealing(debuffer & familiar). Bard may be an option depending on your desire for performance.
Ability scores are going to be general(not focused with 16 a high before racial) due to paladin or wizard if you also want melee...
Traits:+1 Fort, +1 Rflx hard to beat. Magical Knack Wizard will help.
I wasn't really planning on fighting in melee, so I would probably want to avoid multiclassing (although now that I think about it, Wizard 1 / Lore Oracle X-1 would be able to scribe their own spellbooks for use with Arcane Archivist. Of course the ability to cast a Wizard spell once per day that you'd only get at level 12 probably isn't worth the dip). If the loss of class skills proves a dealbreaker then I'd simply skip the archetype.
The Diviner will restore knowledge skills as class skills and a few other benefits. But the oracle is already a level behind in gaining access to higher level spells. This will put you full spell level lower than a cleric. You will gain access to 2nd level spells when the cleric is getting 3rd level spell. This is in addition to all the other negatives of lower caster level, including but not limited to less damage and having a harder time penetrating spell resistance.
Not only will you be gaining access to higher level spells later, but you will also get fewer of them due to limited spells known. The FCB of extra spells known are one lower than the highest level you can cast. That means you will be getting less of your two highest spell levels. At 5th level the straight human oracle can have 9 cantrips, 6 1st level spells, and 2 second level spells. At the same level the multiclassed oracle get 9 cantrips, 4 first level spells, and a single second level spell. This is not including cure/inflict, mystery or spells from their curse. This pattern will continue as the character levels up.
There are more than two spell lists in the game, so having access to the wizard’s spell list does not render UMD useless. Being able to access spells from the Bard, Druid, Inquisitor, Shaman and Witch spell list can be a useful ability.
At early level the wizard spells will boost your combat ability considerably, but after about 3rd to 4th level they will be almost useless. You will also take a minor on fortitude and reflex saves, but a slight boost on will saves.
One option to increase the offensive capability of an oracle is to choose to know all inflict spells instead of all cure spells. Unlike the cleric the oracles choice of cure/inflict is not tied to alignment. There is no reason a good cleric could not know inflict spells instead of cure spells. But that does mean you cannot cast cure spells with your normal spell slots without taking them as a spell known. Since Oracles share the same spell list as clerics, they can easily do a bad touch build.
What I posted is mostly fact not opinion or even advice. The parts about the wizard’s 1st level spells quickly becoming obsolete is about the only opinion in my post, even that is pretty difficult to argue against. I am merely pointing out some of the draw backs of multiclassing, that may be overlooked.
Why bother with mage armor and shield when the oracle is a divine caster that does not have to deal with arcane spell failure and has proficiency with medium armor and shields? I can get the same AC bonus from wearing a breast plate and medium shield. Without the level of wizard there is no reason for the oracle not to use armor and shield. The spells do work vs incorporeal attacks but do not have unlimited durations. Having a +8 to AC all the time is better than having +8 for three minutes and +4 for an extra 2 hours and 57 minutes.
Magical knack can only be taken once, so can only be applied to one class. If he is multiclassing it would be better to take it on oracle to gain full caster level for all his oracle spells instead of having caster level 3 for 3 1st level spells one of which has to be a divinations spell and 3 cantrips.
Most people on the forums advise against multiclassing a full caster, especially a spontaneous caster. If my advice is poor than so is the majority of the people posting on the forums. If what I posted is not accurate or I made any factual mistakes, please point them out.
Instead of dual-cursed, have you looked at spirit guide?
Alternately, depending on the concept and expected levels of play, divine numerologist (Calculate the Odds on attack rolls) might also make sense.
Instead of dual-cursed, have you looked at spirit guide?
Alternately, depending on the concept and expected levels of play, divine numerologist (Calculate the Odds on attack rolls) might also make sense.
I did look at the Spirit Guide, as another option to boost my offensive casting by grabbing the right spirit. It costs more Revelations that I am comfortable giving up, though. I can buy them back with Extra Revelations of course, but then I'm short on feats instead. Still, it's in the back of my head, as a fallback option.
An alternative archetype I was thinking of was actually the Psychic Searcher. Inspiration can be used to help land hits, similarly to Calculate the Odds. Also, I like the theme of a sort of reverse Arcane Trickster, a "divine detective" instead of an "arcane thief", and it does synergize with Lore. A little bit too much actually, to the point where it starts feeling like an overkill. Which is why I went looking for an alternative that would help with offensive casting instead, and grabbing Dual-Cursed to help land debuffs seemed like an obvious starting point. That said, Psychic Searcher is also still on the table.
The real question is what do you want out of the character? It looks like you chose a lore oracle for a reason. Without knowing what those reasons are it is hard to give any real advice. Knowing what you value out of the class and mystery will help in figuring out what you are willing to give up to improve the character.
The real question is what do you want out of the character? It looks like you chose a lore oracle for a reason. Without knowing what those reasons are it is hard to give any real advice. Knowing what you value out of the class and mystery will help in figuring out what you are willing to give up to improve the character.
"Divine fullcasting skill-monkey" (of the Bard variety, so face/knowledge-monkey, rather than Rogue's sneaking and lockpicking) was the original idea, preferably an Oracle because I like it's flavour best amongst the divine casters. In combat I was leaning towards a mix of debuffing/bad-touch and support, though I'm open to other options except for melee (I wanted a primary caster) and summoning (it's a pain to manage). Initially I went with the Psychic Searcher, but I started worrying that I might be spending too many resources on out-of-combat utility and that maybe it would be better to "diversify" a little.