So I was reading through slayer and my favourite class (Necromancer) and realized that the thrall mechanics gives a Slayer pretty much infinite On the Hunt Triggers. Thralls are codified as creatures with 1 hp which are brought to 0hp by pretty much anything. This means that a slayer can use their reaction to go On the Hunt almost whenever one is destroyed.
Now there are some limitations, as far as I can tell Necromancer abilities that destroy thralls shortcut hp so don't meet the requirements of being "reduced to 0hp" that On the Hunt Stipulates. But any form of damage from strikes, aoes, breathing too hard, looking at them for too long ect...is going to proc an On the Hunt Reaction.
It feels...like a really broken interaction and hey! maybe in the final version of Necromancer they codified thralls to work differently but at least in these two playtest versions this synergy in strong.
This made me realize slayers summoning level 1 creatures for them to die is going to kinda be meta if they don't patch it.
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This made me realize slayers summoning level 1 creatures for them to die is going to kinda be meta if they don't patch it.
given the action cost of summoning.. I don't really see this being the case, at least not for the slayer themselves. a necromancer party member is ideal since the summon thrall is one action and can also actually do something before dying.
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Huh, that's funny to see. *quietly updates my false villain kitsune necromancer and false hero tanuki disaster scam couple to have the tanuki be a Slayer instead of a Swashbuckler*
I hadn't even thought of allies going down. It's certainly dramatic to have the Slayer burst into action when an ally falls unconscious, but I can see them switching it to enemies-only as an easy fix. But hey, we've got a full year where we'll have the Necromancer out and this version of the ability. (Thralls including a "don't trigger abilities on reaching 0 or being destroyed" would be even better proofing, and prevent enemy reactions from causing issues.)
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This made me realize slayers summoning level 1 creatures for them to die is going to kinda be meta if they don't patch it.
Just add “that doesn't have minion or summoned trait” solves.
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Now hold on, forget the rest of this thread, I wanna talk about a Kitsune Necromancer and Tanuki Slayer power couple immediately.Huh, that's funny to see. *quietly updates my false villain kitsune necromancer and false hero tanuki disaster scam couple to have the tanuki be a Slayer instead of a Swashbuckler*
It's an idea I had during the Necromancer playtest. The class is very good at making lots of easily-dispatched creatures that look more impressive than they really are, at least for a little bit. That means that you can play an excellent heel, making somebody look really good.
Kitsune Necromancer, pick up Alchemist multiclass to take mutagens in order to boost deception and performance. He shows up in disguises to a small village, makes sure there's no actual hero already there, and starts terrorizing the local populace. (I'm thinking a bit of a laid back theater vibe outside of the role.) Shortly after, a dashing heroic human swordsman shows up, hot on the heels of a vile necromancer. In reality, it's the kitsune's tanuki boyfriend in disguise. (I'm thinking much more ego-driven and aggressive outside of the role.) Stage a dramatic confrontation with the necromancer, really selling how "difficult" the zombies are to fight through, and eventually defeat the foul necromancer.
The hero basks in the rewards and adoration of the people for a few days before an urgent runner from another village shows up asking for the famous and well-regarded undead-slaying hero. He "reluctantly" accepts any aid that the village can provide him to end this menace, and the two head off to enjoy some time together between cons.
The tanuki is the one who really gets a thrill out of it, while the kitsune is along for the ride and learned just enough necromancy to make thralls.
Swashbuckler had much more of a personable "face" aspect to the hero role, but Slayer can do some impressive action economy without buffs, and the Consecrated Panoply or spirit damage Blood-Seeking Blade can both do a better job of passing for a holy warrior.
So I was reading through slayer and my favourite class (Necromancer) and realized that the thrall mechanics gives a Slayer pretty much infinite On the Hunt Triggers. Thralls are codified as creatures with 1 hp which are brought to 0hp by pretty much anything. This means that a slayer can use their reaction to go On the Hunt almost whenever one is destroyed.
Now there are some limitations, as far as I can tell Necromancer abilities that destroy thralls shortcut hp so don't meet the requirements of being "reduced to 0hp" that On the Hunt Stipulates. But any form of damage from strikes, aoes, breathing too hard, looking at them for too long ect...is going to proc an On the Hunt Reaction.
It feels...like a really broken interaction and hey! maybe in the final version of Necromancer they codified thralls to work differently but at least in these two playtest versions this synergy in strong.
It's a bit off-topic but do you think of how thralls would be very useful for small daredevils as props!?
Props! Everywhere!
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It's a bit off-topic but do you think of how thralls would be very useful for small daredevils as props!?Props! Everywhere!
Now we're thinking with portals thralls!
Thralls are undead creatures, but they are not minions with the summoned trait. They can’t take actions, but they can be used for various abilities. Unless noted otherwise, a thrall is Small or Medium (chosen by you when you create it) and must be created in an unoccupied space. A thrall can contribute to flanking as though it were able to make melee unarmed Strikes. A thrall has 1 Hit Point, is automatically hit by attacks, and automatically fails all saving throws. A thrall is immune to bleed, death effects, disease, mental, and poison. A thrall is level –1 if an effect needs to refer to its level. Spells or abilities that create thralls have the thrall trait.
Yeah they are creatures and are not minions or summoned.
OK, só instead add “nor creatures summoned or controlled by you or your allies”.
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Or exclude Thralls specifically. I'm not sure summoned creatures, or even some minions shouldn't be allowed to trigger it, but I could see potentially limiting it to summoned or minions of your level or higher. When you are fighting a boss creature that has a minion, I think it is perfectly fine to have taking it down trigger a beneficial effect.
Minions in pathfinder aren't minions from other games where they are only 1hp.
Honestly I'm not sure it would be unreasonable for even minions or summoned creatures of your level -1 to trigger it. For 1st level characters, that would mean that any minions of summons of level (-1) wouldn't be able to trigger this. That seems reasonable to me.
'Summoned or Controlled by your Allies'
So if a party has a spellcaster who dominates an enemy and allows the party to take them down (or the other side takes them down), it can't trigger the benefit?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your primary concern is them being able to trigger it with negligible investment. I think simple control of it by level is better than condition by who controls them.
I also don't know that 'revenge' on the hunt isn't appropriate, so boosting the party when an ally goes down seems to help the party's condition, so is probably a good thing when they need it.