I’m looking for clarification on several related rules questions involving gauntlets, armor, and disarm attempts. I want to make sure I’m handling this correctly at the table.
1) Masterwork Full Plate and Built-In Gauntlets
Masterwork full plate includes gauntlets as part of the armor.
Are these gauntlets considered masterwork weapons?
My assumption is no, based on the following rule:
The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.
So my reading is:
- The armor is masterwork (reduced ACP)
- The built-in gauntlets are not masterwork weapons and grant no +1 to attack
Is that correct?
2) Do Gauntlets Occupy the Hand Slot, Weapon Slot, or Both?
Gauntlets are worn, but also function as weapons.
- Do gauntlets occupy the hand slot (like gloves)?
- Are they treated as a weapon only for mechanical purposes?
- Occupy both, depending on context?
This mainly comes up with items like Gauntlets of the Skilled, which seem to stack on top of mundane gauntlets, but it feels a bit odd. It also matters for effects like adding the dueling property to a gauntlet.
Is there an official or commonly accepted ruling on this?
3) Disarm Attempts with a Gauntlet
Relevant rules text:
Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
And from Improved Unarmed Strike:
Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike…”
My question:
When using a gauntlet to disarm, is the attacker considered armed or unarmed?
Does the disarm attempt:
- Suffer the –4 penalty?
- Gain the automatic pickup benefit?
- Either / one but not the other?
Gauntlets are weapons, but also closely tied to unarmed strikes, so I’m unclear how they interact here.
4) Gauntlet Magnet (Context)
Part of the reason this matters is the Gauntlet Magnet item. I’m considering it as a thematic alternative to the usual +2 bonus from a dedicated disarm weapon, leaning into a character concept that does everything through armour and worn gear.
1. Based on RAW, that would appear to be correct. My instinctive answer is to point out that, for about as long as there has been a Pathfinder RPG, we've had game designers on here telling us that RAW is a pretty terrible way of approaching home games. On the other hand, the reason why I think most GMs would stick with RAW is that arguing that masterwork armor gauntlets also count as masterwork weapons immediately opens the door to arguing that enhancement bonuses for masterwork armor extend to enhancement bonuses for gauntlets as weapons--and there's a clear disparity in the price for enhancing armor versus enhancing weapons.
2. I don't know of an official ruling or a consensus on this, but I would offer that gauntlets count as weapons but also occupy the hands slot when they are endowed with magical properties that we would associate with wondrous items.
3. A gauntlet is listed as a weapon. Looking at the gauntlet entry, however, we see that while a gauntlet allows you to deal lethal damage, "A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack."
This means that a character "armed" with a gauntlet but lacking the Improved Unarmed Strike feat would, technically, suffer a -4 penalty to disarm but also would be able to "automatically pick up the item dropped"--because while they technically do have a weapon (a gauntlet), it is nonetheless considered an unarmed attack (beyond the damage it deals).
4. That checks, but, depending on the table and the GM, expect to leave yourself open to shenanigans.