Negative Levels vs. Class Features


Rules Questions


Recently our party encountered the "blessing" of Enervation. The description of Energy Drain and Negative Levels doesn't mention if class features are influenced. Spellcasting is also a little unclear.

From what I've gathered, spell variables that are reliant on damage and quantity are changed (d6s for Fireball, how many projectiles you get for Magic Missile, etc), but access to higher level spells remains unaffected (IE a lv11 caster reduced to lv8 can still fire 5th and 6th level spells with reduced effectiveness). Is this correct?

With regards to class features, would imposing negative levels change the amount of damage a character inflicts via their Sneak Attack? Would negative levels modify what options are available to a druid using Wild Shape? Are feats and class features that rely on actually being at a certain level be completely offline until the negative levels are removed?

As always, clarification is appreciated.


The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels.

Negative levels do not actually lower your level it simply makes reduces any level dependent variables. So, you do not lose class abilities, but they can be reduced. Anything that has a formula of referring to the class level is reduced, but things granted at certain levels are not lost. Sneak attack is based on the number of rogue (or other class) levels you have, so is reduced. The shape a druid can take are based achieving specific levels, so are not affected. The amount of time you can remain in wild shape and the number of times per day you can change on the other hand would be affected.

Think of this as a computer program anything represented by a variable is affected by negative levels, anything represented as a constant is not.

But like anything if in doubt ask your GM.


From my reading, anything that uses the "x/level" phrasing will be affected. Characters do not lose access to class feature abilities. So a druid would have reduced time in wild shape but not which creatures the druid has access to become. Barbarians would have fewer rounds of rage and bards lose performance rounds, but they don't lose level prerequisites for rage powers or which bardic performances they can use.

This is different than 3rd Ed rules, so I think many GMs still use those as house rules.

I respectfully disagree with Mysterious Stranger on sneak attack, as that is +1d6 every odd level, so it would be retained, as would a ranger's favored enemy bonus. The verbiage for these is that the features increase at specific levels. Fighter weapon and armor training, monk AC and unarmed damage, and paladin smites per day would likewise not be affected by level drain. May be splitting hairs on my part, so YMMV.


I grok do u wrote:


From my reading, anything that uses the "x/level" phrasing will be affected. Characters do not lose access to class feature abilities. So a druid would have reduced time in wild shape but not which creatures the druid has access to become. Barbarians would have fewer rounds of rage and bards lose performance rounds, but they don't lose level prerequisites for rage powers or which bardic performances they can use.

This is different than 3rd Ed rules, so I think many GMs still use those as house rules.

I respectfully disagree with Mysterious Stranger on sneak attack, as that is +1d6 every odd level, so it would be retained, as would a ranger's favored enemy bonus. The verbiage for these is that the features increase at specific levels. Fighter weapon and armor training, monk AC and unarmed damage, and paladin smites per day would likewise not be affected by level drain. May be splitting hairs on my part, so YMMV.

Just tipping my hat in here to agree with you. I think you nailed it. Just to add my 2 coppers, while a Paladin's Smites Per Day would not be effected, the damage added to their attacks would be (as that is level dependent).


I grok do u wrote:


I respectfully disagree with Mysterious Stranger on sneak attack, as that is +1d6 every odd level,

Unless there's something I'm missing, it is still a level dependent variable and should likewise be subject to the negative level reduction. No different from Rage or Wild Shape duration.

Liberty's Edge

KarmicPlaneswalker wrote:
I grok do u wrote:


I respectfully disagree with Mysterious Stranger on sneak attack, as that is +1d6 every odd level,

Unless there's something I'm missing, it is still a level dependent variable and should likewise be subject to the negative level reduction. No different from Rage or Wild Shape duration.
Sneak attack wrote:
This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter.
Table 3–13: Rogue wrote:
9th ... Sneak attack +5d6

RAW, it is not a formula of the X*levels kind. It is an ability with a specific number of dice of Sneak Attack that the character unlocks when she reaches a specific level.

As a level 9 Rogue, you still have the level 7 feature Sneak attack +4d6, and the level 5 feature Sneak attack +3d6, but they overlap with the feature with the larger set of dice, so only the stronger feature has any effect.

Your guess if it is an intended feature or an artifact of the rulebook formatting is as good as mine.

The Exchange

I can't find the post but years ago someone constructed a logical argument (well, all the steps were logical though the result was illogical) that getting one negative level would, by chaining certain rules steps together, result in automatically getting another, which automatically meant getting another. . .

The full ramifications of negative levels were never spelled out in PF1.

Even trying to say "each negative level is -1 to everything" has caveats about what "everything" is.

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