How does Delay Consequences interact with Grab / Grapple / Restrain or Engulf?

[wheatleymr]

Delay Consequences is here:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2415

"Roll damage normally, but do not reduce Hit Points
or apply any other effects of the attack until the spell’s duration has elapsed.

When the spell ends, the target is immediately affected by the attack, taking damage
and being affected by any additional effects."

Specifically, if the effected target is no longer near the creature that inflicted the attack with the Engulf etc. effect.

...

I'm guessing they stay were they now are, and suffer the immediate effects of the attack that would have Engulfed or Grabbed them - but that they aren't Engulfed or Grabbed?
So for Engulf, they would be Slowed 1, and possibly extra effects for some creatures (E.g. the Living Grove applies a DC 22 Fort save for Stunned & extra damage, etc.)

An alternative is that they get teleported from where they are, to inside the creature, or within it pincers?

[Castilliano]

Well, it is the Time Domain so teleportation seems metaphysically reasonable as some sort of temporal glitch returning the target into those consequences. And that's the cleanest mechanical answer plus I think it'd be hard to contort into shenanigans.

Yet also remember the portion: "You transpose the moment that the target would be injured to a point later in its timestream." In most of those cases we are talking about different moments, i.e. Grab is typically a separate action taking effect after the Strike.

This gives us two ways to go that I can see:
-Count Grab as separate as it's a separate action that takes place after Delay Consequences is even used. Creature Grabs fine, etc.
-Count the opportunity to Grab as an effect of the attack. Feels a bit awkward, yet the Grab ability says "The monster's last action was a successful Strike that lists Grab in its damage entry," which puts Grab in the correct category/entry even if there'll be an action cost too. That effect gets Delayed too, therefore the creature cannot use the Grab action (nor waste it either). When the Consequences occur, then the creature gets the usual opportunity to spend an action to Grab, but IMO only if they still meet the other parameters for grabbing. (This also touches upon when exactly this one round effect ends. Mid-turn?!)

It does get messy with other effects, like a Warsworn's Scrap Ball attack, but I'm okay with 'time glitch' as a solution. Yes, the scrap arrives wherever you have gone, much like a Delayed fire attack with Persistent damage might ignite you or poison would get injected.

Some abilities might slip by, like Rend. It's not listed as an effect of the original attack, it truly is separate albeit dependent. That seems a GM's call whether to say the Strike hit and only its effects are Delayed (therefore Rend works) or the Strike hit (in the mechanical meta), but hadn't really hit yet in play (therefore Rend's Requirements haven't been met).

Then there's the trigger for Delayed Consequences: "A creature or object within range is hit by an attack." So it's not every effect or instance of damage. Read rigorously (IMO too much so!), only attacks count, which could be read as actions with the Attack Trait, not all hostile actions. If so, one couldn't prevent Engulf. Again, I think that's too strict, but we are in the Rules Forum. Yet the view of allowing Delayed Consequences to work does make the 'time glitch' issue more extreme (albeit necessary I suppose).

Zany example: Imagine ooze tries to Engulf, PC fails save so Delay Consequences. PC uses turn to fly up and grab the Macguffin which the party knew would trap the PC permanently inside its niche (maybe even in an area that blocks teleportation, maybe also petrifying them). Oh, and the ooze was Banished to another plane because why not. Now what happens to the PC 1 round later?

Yeah, while I think I've covered the basics, I don't think there's any singular formula that'll address all the issues from this spell.

[Claxon]

Because I like to simplify things....I'd probably say that the only things that get delayed are damage and effects that only cause damage.

So the initial weapon damage? Delayed
The burning effect? Delayed
Poison on the weapon? Delayed

The disarm rider effect? Goes off

That's not RAW, but for me it's just the easiest way to handle it. It does reduce the utility of the spell, but honestly trying to adjudicate how the other stuff happens would just drive me crazy.

[Castilliano]

Avoiding retrocausality is a worthwhile guiding principle. :-)

[wheatleymr]

Good catch that Engulf isn't an Attack, and that helps the sanity a lot.

Also, "When the spell ends, the target is immediately affected by the attack" - likewise a clear reading would be "not yet affected, so the monster can't do a follow-up action, such as "Grab", that would require being affected by that attack.