Hey all. I've thought a lot about how much of the current setting was affected by the results of the Return of the Runelords and Tyrants Grasp APs. Since these two APs came out pretty late in the life cycle of 1e, I was never able to run them since I switched over to 2e and don't intend to go back.
This makes running things in the current state of Golarion awkward at times. My players defeated Karzoug in the Eye of Avarice and discovered a broken seal in the penultimate level of an ancient dwarven dungeon but they would be very confused that there is a New Thassilon and that a certain ancient lich king is currently free and walking Avistan.
I know there are fan made supplements for conversions, but I find running APs complicated enough as is, without having to follow the conversion guide. YMMV of course.
I guess TLDR: it would be super cool to have an updated, compiled 2e version of these APs since they have had such a defining impact on the current state of Golarion!
Anyone else feel the same?
I converted Ironfang Invasion to Pathfinder 2nd Edition. We started playing PF2 in October 2019 just to try it out because we had participated in the public playtest of PF2 in 2018. The only PF2 adventure path available was Age of Ashes, and that was not to my players' taste, so I converted a PF1 adventure path that was to their taste.
It was mostly swapping out each PF1 creature for the PF2 creature of the same name. Treasure was more difficult, and unique creatures were the most difficult. Converting the final boss of Siege of Stone, was so tricky that I created a thread asking for advice: Balancing a Seventeenth-Level Medusa. And Assault on Longshadow, had introduced troop units and PF2's Bestiaries did not have troops yet, so I had to reinvent troops on my own. I still prefer my own design to the official PF2 troops.
I know there are fan made supplements for conversions, but I find running APs complicated enough as is, without having to follow the conversion guide. YMMV of course.
In contrast, I am an experienced GM who has been running campaigns since 2011. I routinely modify the adventure paths to customize them for my players. Converting to PF2 was just an additional mathematical puzzle, and I love mathematical puzzles.
This makes running things in the current state of Golarion awkward at times. My players defeated Karzoug in the Eye of Avarice and discovered a broken seal in the penultimate level of an ancient dwarven dungeon but they would be very confused that there is a New Thassilon and that a certain ancient lich king is currently free and walking Avistan.
I have two stories about that awkwardness.
Ironfang Invasion is set in Nirmathas. One of my players opened up my new copy of Lost Omens World Guide to the Eye of Dread chapter about Nirmathas and its neighboring countries. She asked, "What is this place called Oprak just east of Nirmathas?" I explained to her that the Lost Omens World Guide is set a few years after Ironfang Legion. Oprak is the land that the Ironfang Legion managed to keep after the end of the adventure path and convert into their own nation. She was shocked that Nirmathas had given away so much after winning the war. Our campaign had a different ending: How can I remove slavery from Ironfang Invasion? Epilogue.
More recently, we have been running the PF2 Strength of Thousands adventure path in which the PCs are students at the Magaambya Academy. I purchased Lost Omens Rival Academies about many magical schools around Golarion holding a Convocation of Six Academies. Our current module, Spoken on the Song Wind, was sent in 4722 AR and Rival Academies is dated 4725 AR, so I could not have my player characters visit the Convocation. But I could have them help organize it. One feature that the Magaambya provided to the Convocation was a kapok tree transplanted from the Magaambya Academy in the Mwangi Expanse to the Convocation grounds in Mendev. Transporting a full-sized tree alive across 2400 miles to another continent is not easy, but I had a character, a 20th-level PC named Moonrider, from my Rise of the Runelords campaign who could manage it. So the Magaambya Academy and its PC students teamed up with the Sidhedron Spires school in New Thassilon, on the assumption that Moonrider was working with the Sidhedron Spires. I read up in PathfinderWiki and in Lost Omens Legends about Return of the Runelords and the founding of New Thassilon to answer my players' questions.
Fortunately, two of my players had played in a Return of the Runelords campaign run by another GM, so they were better at answering questions about New Thassilon than I was.
In conclusion, the Lost Omens World Guide and Lost Omens Legends have the canonical answers to what happened in the PF1 adventure paths. However, since I ran Rise of the Runelords, Jade Regent, Iron Gods, and Ironfang Invasion myself, my version of Golarion has some different answers than the canon. For example, in my version Casandalee never became the Iron Goddess at the conclusion to Iron Gods. Instead, she returned to android form and flies around Golarion in a small spaceship.
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I dunno. It's your game. Most of the APs are isolated enough that you don't have to worry about previous events if you don't want to. For those which are tied to the others, some of them are more tied and some less. And honestly, players don't usually care that much. Most of them want to have a good time - canon not being 100% in alignment doesn't get in the way of a good time for most people, I think.
Long / Short : Have a good time!
Thanks for the anecdotes Mathmuse, they were a fun read!
I know there are fan made supplements for conversions, but I find running APs complicated enough as is, without having to follow the conversion guide. YMMV of course.In contrast, I am an experienced GM who has been running campaigns since 2011. I routinely modify the adventure paths to customize them for my players. Converting to PF2 was just an additional mathematical puzzle, and I love mathematical puzzles.
This certainly checks out given your user name, haha. I do enjoy making adventures my own, but typically by cutting encounters and changing story based on my players actions and tastes.
I dunno. It's your game. Most of the APs are isolated enough that you don't have to worry about previous events if you don't want to. For those which are tied to the others, some of them are more tied and some less. And honestly, players don't usually care that much. Most of them want to have a good time - canon not being 100% in alignment doesn't get in the way of a good time for most people, I think.
Long / Short : Have a good time!
My players and I have spent a lot of time building our version of Golarion, so I could definitely have them just read the wiki for an update or give them some version of "Somehow Palpatine returned!", but I would much rather have the option of them playing these things out if that makes sense?
Anywho, this is something I have thought about a lot over the past couple of years, so I figured I would put it out there into the world.
While it definitely would be neat to have more 1e APs converted to 2e, I think Paizo's experience converting Kingmaker to 2e means its not likely to happen anytime soon.
There may be another possibility for your players to experience the return of Tar-Baphon in 2e. The first adventure of the Claws of the Tyrant adventure anthology features a few survivors of Lastwall emerging into the Gravelands after hiding in a crypt for years. Perhaps that adventure with some sort of action prologue could serve as an introduction to that particular change in the setting.
While it definitely would be neat to have more 1e APs converted to 2e, I think Paizo's experience converting Kingmaker to 2e means its not likely to happen anytime soon.
There may be another possibility for your players to experience the return of Tar-Baphon in 2e. The first adventure of the Claws of the Tyrant adventure anthology features a few survivors of Lastwall emerging into the Gravelands after hiding in a crypt for years. Perhaps that adventure with some sort of action prologue could serve as an introduction to that particular change in the setting.
Yeah, they went pretty crazy with the Kingmaker crowd funding campaign, haha. I'd hope for just a normal one book hardcover like the Runelords and Crimson throne compilations. I don't think we would need to go all out with the companion guides, pawn sets, extra maps 5e version etc..
I have no experience running and RPG company though, so who knows, lol
I have the Claws of the Tyrant adventure but never looked through it. I figured It would be moot until Tyrants Grasp had happened in our game. Thanks for the tip, I'll thumb through it!
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My players and I have spent a lot of time building our version of Golarion, so I could definitely have them just read the wiki for an update or give them some version of "Somehow Palpatine returned!", but I would much rather have the option of them playing these things out if that makes sense?I dunno. It's your game. Most of the APs are isolated enough that you don't have to worry about previous events if you don't want to. For those which are tied to the others, some of them are more tied and some less. And honestly, players don't usually care that much. Most of them want to have a good time - canon not being 100% in alignment doesn't get in the way of a good time for most people, I think.
Long / Short : Have a good time!
yeah. totally. just... there's a world shaking event published at least once a year, and for me, it took 4 years to run tyrant's grasp. I dunno how fast you game, but keeping up with everything just seems unsustainable to me.
Anywho, this is something I have thought about a lot over the past couple of years, so I figured I would put it out there into the world.
It is YOUR Golarion.
So... maybe just ignore the stuff you don't want to include? or just leave it in the background? or yeah, point players at the wiki and keep a change log for your game which supersedes it. i have a little text document with the changes i've made at my table. just a some bullet points going over the divergences from 'canon' as a result of our running Tyrant's Grasp and Sky King's Tomb. it seems to work so far.
Tyrant's Grasp is a really solid campaign, and if you do end up running it, there's plenty of guidance in the forum here.