Balancing a Seventeenth-Level Medusa


Advice


The 14th-level party in my campaign now faces a 17th-level medusa with additional powers. Elacnida was supposed to be the CR 15 final boss of the module, but I converted the adventure path to PF2, my party is one level higher than expected, and has 7 members, so a 17th-level adversary seemed appropriate.

But a medusa's two-part petrification gaze is difficult to balance in the conversion from PF1 to PF2. I could use a sanity check about my decision.

PF2 has fewer ways of dealing with petrification than PF1. Previous modules offered opportunities acquire a jar of stone salve, an amulet of proof against
petrification,
and a lidless charm bracelet, likely in anticipation of Elacnida's petrifying gaze, but the party skipped some looting because of peaceful resolution of conflicts and saved me the trouble of converting them. And, of course, PF1 offers the 6th-level arcane spell Flesh to Stone and the 5th-level spell Break Enchantment. I recall that 3rd-level PF1 Dispel Magic did not work on petrification, but maybe that is because Flesh to Stone is instantaneous and Dispel Magic specifically does not work on instantaneous effects.

PF2 also offers Stone to Flesh but it lacks Break Enchantment. Its only magic item that removes or prevents petrification is Greater Salve of Antiparalysis, item 12, though Smoked Goggles offer the same bonus against visual effects as Averting Gaze. The 8th-level one-day ritual Freedom can also remove petrification, but that ritual is not available to 14th-level characters.

Last year's Rules Discussion thread Can Dispel Magic dispel the "permanent petrification" caused by a Medusa offers reasons why Dispel Magic cannot undo a medusa's- pertrification in PF2:
1) Dispel Magic targets "1 spell effect or unattended magic item" yet a medusa's Focus Gaze petrification ability is a magical offensive creature ability, not a spell.
2) Although the Focus Gaze ability uses the phrase, "petrified permanently," it does not have an official spell duration. The enduring effect of magic is not necessarily a magical effect, because the Duration rules say, "Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. For instance, a spell that creates a loud sound and has no duration might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as restore senses)." The rules for Petrified do not declare it a magical condition.
Reason 2 matters because I have already fudged Reason 1 in this campaign. The sorcerer was able to dispel the Change Shape ability of a doppleganger to prove that it was an imposter.

On the other hand, the Counteract rules do balance Dispel Magic nicely against 17th-level Elacnida. The counteract level of her Focus Gaze would be 9. The 14th-level sorcerer can heighten Dispel Magic only up to 7th level, so she would need a Critical Success on a 6th-level or 7th-level Dispel Magic to counteract Elacnida's Focus Gaze. The druid in the party, in contrast, could prepare Stone to Flesh in his 6th-level slots. Thus, he will be the favorite target of Elacnida once she deduces his class.

In apparent balance to fewer cures for petrification, many PF2 creatures have less threat of permanent petrification. Cockatrice, creature 3, offer a DC 20 Fortitude save every 24 hours to recover from their Calcification petrification, though a critical failure makes the petrification permanent. The Calcification from a Granite Glyptodont, creature 8, have a similar 24-hour Fortitude save, but with DC 26. The petrification from a Basilisk's Petrifying Gaze (creature 5) can be cured with fresh basilisk blood, which is usually available after defeating a basilisk. The petrification from a Gorgon's breath weapon (creature 8) lasts only one minute, except a critical failure makes it permanent. A Dracolisk, creature 9, copies the blood cure of a basilisk. The Stygira's Stone Curse (creature 7) can be broken with 4th-level spell Remove Curse.

And the Critical Failure petrifications have the Incapacitation trait, so any character of higher level than the creature can't have a critical failure.

The Medusa, Waldgeist, adult and ancient Crystal Dragons, and Fossil Golem have no easy remedy for their petrification at hand. They do require multiple failed Fortitude saves: DC 25 for the 7th-level Medusa, DC 24 for the 8th-level Waldgeist, DC 30 for the 11th-level adult Crystal Dragon, DC 32 for the 12th-level Fossil Golem, and DC 37 for the 16th-level ancient Crystal Dragon. I set 17th-level Elacnida's Fortitude save to DC 35, the moderate value on the GMG's Table 2–11: Spell DC and Spell Attack Bonus, because the extreme value, DC 38, felt too high.

The 7th-level Medusa's DC 25 is the extreme value for 7th level. A Medusa's 105 hit points are low for a 7th-level creature. Her gaze is her primary defense and her primary offense. Elacnida has alternatives, but I am putting the description under a spoiler mask.

Elacnida:
Elacnida is a ghost, so is incorporeal and will rejuvenate from death if any petrified creature in the reliquary is left uncured and undestroyed. She also has the Draining Touch of a ghost and I let her snakes deal spirit venom that drains hit points from the victim back to Elacnida.

She has the ability to shape her ghostly appearance to match any creature she petrified, but that renders her medusa abilities inert. She has Deception +33 for this ruse. She had intended to use this to lure party members out of sight from the others, resume her true form in a single action, and petrify them. She wants more anchors to maintain her undead existence.

She can hide inside a petrified creature, so that hitting her would damage the petrified creature, too, and add Hardness 8 to her Resistance 15 all damage except force and ghost-touch. Taking a petrified creature from the reliquary would extend her Site Bound range, though I suppose a mile away would break the connection. And she can teleport to any other petrified creature in the reliquary in two actions, which gives her an excellent escape. I like that, because she will risk trying to interact with the PCs before the final battle.

Two petrified creatures have evidence for a mystery the party wants to solve, so they would rather cure those petrifications rather than demolish them. Elacnida will appear as false ghosts of them to tell lies to the party.

My questions are whether the Fortitude DC 35 on her petrification is appropriate, whether I should allow 7th-level Dispel Magic to break petrification on a Critical Success, and whether I should load up the party with Greater Salve of Antiparalysis?


1. I think that DC sounds fine. The bog standard medusa's DC is really high, but that is also all that a medusa has going for them. Elicnida has many more tricks at her disposal, and I don't see any reason to strictly stick to the original medusa formula when she is no longer, strictly speaking, a medusa. PF2E moved away from that sort of paradigm for a reason; it lets you make more flexible monsters as you see fit and based on their role in the campaign.
That being said, if you felt like compromising and bumping the DC to 36 I don't think it would break anything. Unless your party have memorized the monster creation tables the only one who will know whether that save is high or not is you in any case.

2. I'd say no, unless you want to deal with the precedent that it will set RE: dispelling instantaneous effects. You know your group better than we do, so you know how much they would be likely to take advantage of such a ruling. If you think they would lean heavily on it, and make dispel magic more broadly applicable than it already is for solving problems, then I'd shy away from it. From the posts I've read of you and your group you all seem to value tactical problem solving and having some in-game puzzles, and broadening dispel magic would simplify the number of solutions to those problems. If you don't think your party would use dispel magic as their end-all crutch and answer to any magical problems then sure, go for it. Being petrified and not being allowed to play absolutely sucks.

3. For that reason, my answer to this question is yes, absolutely. Give your party the means to circumvent being petrified, whether it's a high-level salve, some handy scrolls, a magical plant that someone with Nature or Crafting can whip up into a tonic, or an NPC who can cast stone to flesh. Another big paradigm shift of PF2E seems to be shifting the focus from long-term buffs and debuffs to ones that primarily affect the encounter they take place in, and petrification doesn't need to be any different. Also, again, not being allowed to play sucks and is the literal antithesis of why everyone is at the table in the first place. I've yet to hear about the party who prefers to complain about the lack of verisimilitude rather than accepting the bone thrown and moving on to the next leg of the adventure.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I wouldn't worry about granting extra remedies to my party. As you noted, Stone to Flesh can reverse the petrification, and if the party doesn't have that they can pay someone to cast it for them. If they cannot afford that, then it sounds like a neat opportunity for an adventure hook for the party to restore their petrified member. Perhaps that player can play an NPC that knows where to go to find the McGuffin to restore the PC but is too weak to go alone. Once done the player can resume playing as the PC, and now you have an NPC that the party owes big time, possibly leading to another adventure hook when that NPC needs a favor. This NPC may also be able to reprise this same role if another PC is incapacitated somehow. Here is the NPC again, ready to help. Who is this NPC, and how are they always ready to help the party when they need it most? Why is the NPC so helpful? Is the NPC some form of divine protector? Maybe something more sinister? Go wild with it.


The main balance question is - do the players have warning and a reasonable chance to prepare spells or buy items against the main villian, in this case a Medusa?

It looks like the answer is yes then you can afford to make it a little stronger.

Incorporeal is going to depend on how you play it. I go with a strict interpretation of the trait so its a lot stronger than many otther GMs.


The main petrification creatures ramp up in potency rather quickly, from Cockatrice to Basilisk to Medusa (w/ Gorgon going a different route w/ it as a debuff w/ petrification being rare). Each step doesn't just increase the DC, as you've noted, but makes the event more likely in other ways. It's much how Grab becomes Improved Grab or Trip becomes Improved Trip to save actions for higher level creatures (or make them work w/ AoOs), much because those higher-level actions become more valuable. I mean it's quite easy for that Fossil Golem to petrify somebody in one attack routine, and there's no closing your eyes there.

So...it'd be warranted to have much more than a DC increase, like by making the radius larger, making Focus Gaze a free action (perhaps once/turn) or keep it an action and make it work on all targets (so might have to change the name!).
And I'd keep the rules as normal, hopefully with the party having forewarning and cunning, perhaps even to go in blindfolded or with special senses via items/spells. So no Dispel Magic, though I'd inform the players of that beforehand.

You could add some fun tricks too, like spitting venom in a cone, giving Reach to her snakes (maybe w/ Improved Trip), or a ricochet shot to confuse targets as to where an arrow came from. The Erinyes Furious Fusillade could be a cool addition too. And being able to slip and slide out of danger would be on them re: serpents and sync with her not wanting to engage in melee (not that I know, since that specific medusa might want to).

Not sure with such a large party I'd focus all the increase on the boss though, especially since it makes it that much harder to recover if petrified and it's an AoE-centric boss at that. Maybe add a twin sister?
(And if so, maybe they could pretend to be one individual for a round or two!)


The player characters did have advance notice of a medusa, but were told that she had left a year ago.

Spoilers for 4th module of Ironfang Invasion:
General Azaersi, the hobgoblin leader of the Ironfang Legion, has been using an artifact called the Onyx Key to aid her army in the invasion. She with the medusa Elacnida and two other companions, stole the Onyx Key from the Reliquary of Ascension, a vault and memorial in the lowest levels of the dwarven city Kraggodan.

The party learned on page 19 of Siege of Stone of the names and species of the four vault raiders and traced their path to Kraggodan. Now they are entering the Reliquary of Ascension on page 44 of the module, about 5 days later, to confirm the theft and learn more about the Onyx Key. They informally promised the rulers of Kraggodan that they would clear out the monsters that Azaersi inadvertently let into the reliquary.

The 11th-level dwarf wizard Karburtin, royal archivist of Kraggodan, dared not enter the monster-infested Reliquary of Ascension, but he has scryed the place, learned that some previous investigators were turned to stone, yet assumed that the petrifying creature left because he could not detect it. He told the party this. Nevertheless, Karburtin could prepare two Stone to Flesh spells to rescue the petrified dwarven investigators, retroactively replacing the other two 6th-level spells I gave him.

The party already entered the Reliquary and I wrote up the first 80% of the game session in another thread. In the last 20% they encountered Elacnida. Caught by surprise three PCs, a dwarf paladin/summoner NPC, the paladin/summoner's phantom eidolon, and a velociraptor animal companion were within 30 feet and in line of sight of Elacnida's Petrifying Gaze. I declared the phased-out phantom eidolon immune, the paladin and two PCs rolled well and succeeded at the DC 35 Fortitude save, and the rogue/arcane trickster Sam and the velociraptor failed the save. Sam was Hasted, so he bluffed successfully that he was not slowed. Elacnida tried her Focus Gaze on the velociraptor. The velociraptor failed the save. The champion Tikti used her Champion's Sacrifice focus spell to pull the Focus Gaze to herself, but not being pre-slowed, she suffered a slowed effect rather than a petrification effect. This tactic could be used again on any ally within 30 feet of Tikti so long as she is not slowed herself, but eventually Elacnida will realize that Tikti also denies the target the temporary immunity to a second Focus Gaze.

Finding herself surrounded by enemies that she apparently could not petrify, Elacnida teleported deeper into the reliquary.

Finally, the party sorcerer Honey un-petrified a dwarven investigator with Dispel Magic, but I will retroactively have Karburtin do that with Stone to Flesh. I think that I will allow Honey to dispel the slowed effect from Petrifying Gaze as a defense against petrification, because the slowing from unfinished petrification feels like active magic, but not dispel a full petrification.

Talking to the druid's player, he said he did not prepare Stone to Flesh simply because he had not noticed it on the primal spell list. I will let him retroactive change that.

Thank you for the advice.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Here is what I did, minus the possession and impersonation stuff.

Elacnida
GHOST MEDUSA SPYMASTER 15
LE, Unique Medium Ghost Incorporeal Spirit Undead
Senses Perception +32; darkvision
Languages Common, Goblin, Undercommon
Skills Acrobatics +27, Deception +33, Diplomacy, +30, Intimidation +30, Society 27 Stealth +32
Str -5, Dex +6, Con +0, Int +6, Wis +4, Cha +8
Site Bound

AC 37; all-around vision Fort +23, Ref +29, Will +26
HP 258, negative Healing, rejuvenation; Immunities death effects, disease, paralyzed, poison, precision, unconscious; Resistances all damage 10 (except force, ghost touch, or positive; double resistance vs. non-magical)

Petrifying Gaze (arcane, aura, transmutation, visual) 30 feet. When a creature ends its turn in the aura, it must attempt a DC 36 Fortitude save. If the creature fails, it becomes slowed 1 for 1 minute. The medusa can deactivate or activate this aura by using a single action, which has the concentrate trait.
Biting Snakes [reaction] Trigger A creature ends its turn adjacent to the medusa. Effect The medusa makes a snake fangs Strike against the creature.

Rejuvenation (divine, necromancy) Eliminating her petrified anchors—either by returning them to flesh and blood or utterly destroying their stone form—can Elacidna’s tether to the mortal realm be severed, allowing her spirit to move on to the Boneyard.

Speed fly 25 feet
Melee ghostly hand +30 (agile, finesse, magical), Damage 3d10+14 negative+ 3d6 sneak
Melee snake fangs +28 (agile, finesse), Damage 3d14+14+3d6 sneak

Focus Gaze (arcane, concentrate, incapacitation, transmutation, visual) The medusa fixes their glare at a creature they can see within 30 feet. The target must immediately attempt a Fortitude save against the medusa’s petrifying gaze. If the creature was already slowed by petrifying gaze before attempting its save, a failed save causes it to be petrified permanently. After attempting its save, the creature is then temporarily immune until the start of the medusa’s next turn.
Frightful Moan (auditory, divine, emotion, enchantment, fear, mental) DC 36
Corrupting Gaze (divine, evocation) 8d6 negative, DC 36 basic will. A creature that fails this save also fails against the Focus Gaze ability.
Draining Touch Gaze Makes a strike, no damage on a hit. Instead, target is drained 1 and ghost regains 10 HP.

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