Going with the other basic environmental protections thread, what is this all about?
What does
"You always have basic environmental protections (page 268)."on Android's Constructed ability actually do? I read it as meaning you constantly have what it says on
"While using your armor’s environmental protections, your armor can protect you from the dangerous environmental effects of a vacuum and can facilitate self-contained breathing. This allows you to survive and breathe while within a thick or thin atmosphere, in a vacuum, or while submerged in liquid (the safety seals and rebreather offer no protection from the effects of damaging liquids, such as acid or lava)."and the linked
Basic environmental protections "This upgrade protects the user against the effects of space as well as thick and thin atmospheres."
So basically you don't have to worry about vacuums, weird atmospheres, or being underwater.
However, if that is true why does this feat exist? Internal Respirator (Player Core 45) It seems useless. If it doesn't mean you can survive in a vacuum/don't have to breathe, then what does it do at all?
Looking at the playtest PDF this line wasn't there and the feat was. So someone added this line to Constructed and forgot about the feat maybe? But then what is RAI?
Not that it means anything rules wise, but the recent Iconic blog post with Quig has this line
“What? That rough landing get to you? You? Hunter of adamantine? Just breathe—wait, no—circulate your arc coolant and loosen up those radial connector bolts.”
, which implies that Iseph doesn't need to breathe so Quig corrected mid-sentence (though it could also mean Quig thought of something better for Iseph to do).
So weird. Anyone have any inside knowledge?
Okay managed to get a response from one of the people that works on the foundry systems (so not official AFAIK, but someone who has a lot of experience with the rules).
Here is my summary after talking with them (I had AI clean it up a bit so if it looks AI-ish that's why):
Basic Environmental Protections (per page 244):
- Protects against: vacuum, thick/thin atmospheres, and non-hazardous underwater environments
- "Survive in a vacuum" includes protection from space's "normal" temperature extremes, normal space radiation, etc (otherwise you're not surviving)
- Does NOT protect against: toxic atmospheres, inhaled poisons, smoke inhalation, radiation hazards, corrosive atmospheres, etc
Regular Armor:
- Provides basic environmental protections with limited duration (days equal to item level, minimum 1 day)
- Must be activated with an Interact action
Android Ancestry:
- "You always have basic environmental protections" means unlimited duration - they're permanently active
- This makes sense as Androids are synthetic beings that don't actually need to breathe
- They can survive indefinitely in vacuum, underwater, or thin/thick atmospheres
- They remain vulnerable to toxic atmospheres, poison gas, etc. (things basic protections don't cover)
Internal Respirator Feat (Level 9):
- Provides 1 hour of protection against air-based hazards that basic protections DON'T cover
- This includes toxic atmospheres, inhaled poisons, smoke, and other actively harmful environments
- Functions as an emergency "gas mask" for Androids when basic protections aren't enough
You can also ignore breathing issue from being Swallowed Whole or the Telekinetic Strangulation spell, although you’ll still take damage.
Internal Respirator Feat (Level 9):
- Provides 1 hour of protection against air-based hazards that basic protections DON'T cover
- This includes toxic atmospheres, inhaled poisons, smoke, and other actively harmful environments
- Functions as an emergency "gas mask" for Androids when basic protections aren't enough
This kind of makes sense (consistent within the rules), but at the same time doesn't (narratively).
Like if a android can be in space for days and doesn't need to breath...why would inhaled poisons be a problem? The android doesn't need to breath.
If it were a contact poison I could see it. Same for smoke and many other things that are only "harmful" if inhaled. Like I get from a balance standpoint...but narratively it doesn't make sense that the android can be in space for an unlimited duration and be fine, but being around a poison that only harms you if you inhale it is a problem for a being that doesn't inhale things.
This may also just be an issue for me, being used to Sf1 which had basic environmental protections work this way:
Breathing and Pressure
All armor can facilitate self-contained breathing, protecting you against vacuums, smoke, and thick, thin, and toxic atmospheres (including any airborne poison or disease). Self-contained breathing functions underwater and in similar liquid environments. This protection allows you to breathe in a corrosive atmosphere (see page 395) to prevent suffocation, but it isn't strong enough to prevent a corrosive atmosphere from dealing acid damage to both you and your armor. A suit of armor with an upgrade that grants acid resistance reduces any acid damage taken from a corrosive atmosphere normally. Any vision impairment from the environment (such as smoke or water) still applies.
Radiation
Armor protects you against low levels of radiation (see page 403) and grants a +4 circumstance bonus to saving throws against higher levels of radiation. Armor of 7th level and higher grants immunity to medium radiation levels and provides a +6 circumstance bonus to saving throws against higher levels of radiation. No armor's bonuses apply to saves against radiation sickness, regardless of the level of radiation exposure that caused you to contract it.
Temperature
Armor's environmental protections reasonably protect you against both cold (temperatures as low as –20° F) and heat (temperatures as high as 140° F). This prevents you from having to attempt most Fortitude saving throws to avoid damage from the environment, and it prevents you from taking damage from breathing in most environments. This does not protect against cold or fire damage from other sources or against environments that deal damage without allowing a Fortitude saving throw or breathing the atmosphere (such as lava).)
Seems like environmental protection was made weaker for 2nd edition...not sure I like that but was probably done for balance when interacting with PF2 stuff (because the games are meant to be compatible-ish).
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It wasn't done for PF2 compatibility, it was done because of their experience with SF1 environmental protections being too strong (and immunities in general being too common with things like SROs). It's something they talked a little about.
It wasn't done for PF2 compatibility, it was done because of their experience with SF1 environmental protections being too strong (and immunities in general being too common with things like SROs). It's something they talked a little about.
I can appreciate that....but I still don't like it. A bit for legacy reasons, but also simply because of how environmental protections should work, and the narrative dissonance I mentioned of being fine not breathing in space (for potentially their whole life span) but somehow the inhaled poison hurts them despite not breathing.
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It wasn't done for PF2 compatibility, it was done because of their experience with SF1 environmental protections being too strong (and immunities in general being too common with things like SROs). It's something they talked a little about.I can appreciate that....but I still don't like it. A bit for legacy reasons, but also simply because of how environmental protections should work, and the narrative dissonance I mentioned of being fine not breathing in space (for potentially their whole life span) but somehow the inhaled poison hurts them despite not breathing.
Sure. I'm coming from the other direction, I suppose. In the playtest, androids couldn't survive in space unprotected for any amount of time. Now they can. I much prefer having the consistency of "androids in both SF1 and SF2 can take a casual space-walk" over the avoiding the breathing weirdness by always requiring breathing.
I guess since I didn't participate in the SF2 playtest, it still feels like a small rug being pulled out form underneath. It's not huge, but narratively going from SF1 to SF2 I really dislike this change.
I understand it's better for the game....but like out current tech level space suits would absolutely protect you from anything that requires inhalation to effect you (at least until the suit is compromised). The fact that future space suits don't (and by extensions Androids don't) is confusing.
Eh, sure- but you can't eat in our space suits, or fight effectively, and they have pretty limited use-time. And taking slashing or piercing damage in one becomes a pretty urgent problem...
I can certainly understand the frustration, though. For me, it's wanting playable undead to feel more undead and have some of those unbalanced immunities.
I think a nice addition would be a hazmat suit that does provide those broad immunities, but comes with some of the drawbacks that are why people don't wear that sort of thing normally.