Obligatory warning that I'm writing this on mobile after midnight so there may be spelling mistakes. I tried searching for this ability online and didn't really find any mentions of it.
This creature in book 5 of extinction curse has the below ability. Though it seems to be lacking the death trait it certainly seems like a death effect. Was this just missing an errata that would have added it or do y'all think it would just not have the death trait?
Grim Reaper is the example death effect in the rulebook and the wording for its death effect is very similar and that leads me to believe it was just printed without the death trait. Are there death abilities of a similar nature that also do not have the death trait?
For something similar, the Guillotine Golem ( https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1650 ) also has a "if this critically hits you, you need to make a fortitude save or be decapitated and thus probably dead" ability that also lacks the Death trait.
I think that in both these cases, the idea is that failing the save means that you lose something which you almost certainly need to survive; whereas the Death trait tends to mean "this wouldn't necessarily kill you outright, but in this case it does because of some supernatural property".
ex: the Chromatic Ooze has neither heart nor head, so neither decapitation nor heart-seeking would apply. The Grim Reaper could just swipe at it and kill it instantly, despite the Ooze's immunity to critical hits, since that only mitigates the extra damage and not the "save or die" rider.
orangemonkey wrote: Was this just missing an errata that would have added it or do y'all think it would just not have the death trait? We have no way to know what the intention was. But I will point out a couple of important details here:
Death Trait wrote: An effect with the death trait kills you immediately if it reduces you to 0 HP. Some death effects can bring you closer to death or slay you outright without reducing you to 0 HP. The first sentence is important here. If that attack had the death trait, the strike itself has the Death trait and if that drops a PC to 0 HP, they instantly die.
I'd argue that only the critical failure effect should have the Death trait. We do see this in a couple of places elsewhere in the game, where certain outcomes have the Death trait but other outcomes don't for this reason. But since this attack kills you either way in that situation, it's not really that important to have it unless you've gained immunity to Death effects (and if they don't want you to be immune to this, not having the trait is a way to avoid that).
Thank you both for your responses.
Tridus's interpretation is how we ruled it in that the 2nd half of the ability would be a death effect and not the whole attack.
I do wonder in the Guillotine Golem example from Conscious Meat if it were updated to remaster if it would gain the death trait for the decapitation. Given that both creatures are from the pre-remaster world it may be that their abilities would gain the death trait for the dying parts. Either way that golem would be a beast to fight.
That golem is from a high-level horror-themed adventure in Galt with Grey Gardeners running around, so... the party should expect decapitation to be a recurring motif. :D
...
And yeah, it's reasonable to slap "Death" on that critical effect, just as how e.g. the Vorpal rune works (in both legacy and remaster, interestingly).
The instant-kill effect of a crit failure vs. "Touch of Death" curiously does not; nor does "Assassinate" have the Death trait. "Fatal Aria" does, as does "Decree of Execution".
*shrug*
This post was flagged as in the wrong forum, but it looks like a Pathfinder Second Edition Rules Question to me, so I'm leaving it! Let me know if I'm incorrect, though!
Maya Coleman wrote: This post was flagged as in the wrong forum, but it looks like a Pathfinder Second Edition Rules Question to me, so I'm leaving it! Let me know if I'm incorrect, though! Looks right to me! Only other place it could go would be the Extinction Curse forum, but it's a rules question so it seems fine here.
Tridus wrote: Looks right to me! Only other place it could go would be the Extinction Curse forum, but it's a rules question so it seems fine here. Thank you, Tridus! I started to genuinely second guess my choice here. >.<
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