Eidolon Actions

[IceniQueen]

Question...

In a campaign we are playing, 1 player is a Summoner with a Eidolon. Last night during combat, the Summoner took 2 actions, then had their Eidolon take their actions, then the Summoner tried to take another action.

I said no, this is not how it works.

This morning I get a message saying they get shared MAP and the summoner can take 2 actions, then the Eideon can take 2 actions getting 4 actions (Without using Haste or another spell that grants a free action.

The way I read it is the Summoner and the Eidolon share te MAP of 3. That if the Summoner takes 3 actions, the Eidolon gets none. If the Summoner takes 2, the Eidolon gets 1, That if the Summoner takes 1 the Eidolon takes 2. They could effectively do 1 for the summoner, 1 for the Eidolon and 1 more for the Summoner on their turn.

Am I reading this correctly?

[HammerJack]

Yes and no.

Yes, they share 3 actions between them.

BUT, they generally take more than 3 actions total. The summoner relies a lot on action compression from Tandem Activities. The first one of those they get is Act Together, which allows one member of the pair to use any 1-3 action activity at normal action cost while the other takes any single action at no additional cost. That can total 4 actions (though it cannot be in the form of two 2-action Activities).

Other Tandem abilities come in from feats and are less free-form.

So a summoner and eidolon taking more than 3 actions total is normal, but they should be able to express what abilities they are using to make it happen.

[Errenor]

MAP (multiple attack penalty) has nothing to do with actions. And yes, Summoner and Eidolon still has 3 actions to spend between each other in any order and distribution between each other.
But there's a catch: action compression abilities. The base one is Act Together. I won't describe it in details, but using it Summoner and Eidolon act (kind of) at the same time and basically get that 4th action.
Act Together
Another very important one demands spending a feat:
Tandem Movement
There's also this, but it's not very good as Summoners strike badly:
Tandem Strike

[IceniQueen]

Thanks

[Ravingdork]

My summoner frequently uses his three actions to get five actions worth of awesome with Act Together and Tandem Movement.

First, we both move into position (two Strides for one action with Tandem Movement), then my summoner typically casts a two action save spell while my eidolon Strikes (two actions rather than three with Act Together).

Sometimes, after we Stride, my summoner will cast a 1 action spell such as boost eidolon while the eidolon Strikes for boosted damage (only a single action with Act Together). Then my summoner will either Raise Shield, cast 1-action heal, or Stride to a better location.

Another possibility is to have the eidolon move into flanking with the summoner or another ally, then Demoralize the target enemy, then make a boosted Strike. Between being off-gaurd, the frightened penalty, and possibly buffs such as bless or courageous anthem, the eidolon is much more likely to land a high damage crit. Since the eidolon and summoner are treated as separate creatures, except where stated otherwise, both can independently Demoralize enemies, allowing them a limited form of bypass of the Demoralize immunity.

Summoners and their eidolons have some of the best action compression in the game. I've done all sort of cool things with my summoner, such as having the summoner Reposition a dangerous enemy at the edge of a cliff that they started nowhere near, then have the eidolon rush forward and Shove them off!

Important things to note:
- Act Together is something every summoner gets for free. It is specifically setup the way it is in order to prevent the summoner and eidolon from getting two two-action activities, such as casting two 2-action spells in the same round.
- Tandem Movement is optional, requires a feat to obtain, and is limited to Stride (or equivalent such as burrow, climb, fly, or swim).

I hope that helps!

[IceniQueen]

Ok, that said... Both move at the same time. But then could the summoner do 1 action, the eidolon an action, the summoner an action, the Eidolon an action Splitting up their actions?

[SuperParkourio]

The summoner and eidolon can Act Together, spending one shared action to both perform single actions. Are you asking if they could Act Together as a single action 2 additional times that turn (totalling 6 actions)?

Edit: Looks like they thought of that. Frequency once per round.

[Baarogue]

IceniQueen wrote:

Ok, that said... Both move at the same time. But then could the summoner do 1 action, the eidolon an action, the summoner an action, the Eidolon an action Splitting up their actions?

The eidolon is not a minion like a familiar, an animal companion, or summoned creature. Minions must use the two actions they gain from Command immediately instead of alternating them with their master's actions. A summoner and their eidolon may alternate their actions freely. If the summoner used the Act Together action during one of those pairs of actions you mentioned, they could get a total action expenditure that exceeds 3. It would help if you shared which specific actions your summoner player wanted the pair of them to take so we can tell you if they would be able to nest any of them w/i Act Together

[Ravingdork]

IceniQueen wrote:

Ok, that said... Both move at the same time. But then could the summoner do 1 action, the eidolon an action, the summoner an action, the Eidolon an action Splitting up their actions?

They would need to have Tandem Move or be using the once per round Act Together to both Stride as a single action. They would then have two actions (and a reaction) remaining between them for the round.

So they could both move into flanking and Strike, for example. If the player took Tandem Movement, there'd even be an action left.

The only way to get six effective actions in a round with the summoner and eidolon that I know of is to use Tandem Move or Tandem Strike three times.

[IceniQueen]

So the round was Summoner spent 2 actions to cast a spell. Then they had the Eidolon move, then the Summoner was going to mount the Eidolon, and then have the Eidolon attack.

They never said what feats they were using.

[Baarogue]

IceniQueen wrote:

So the round was Summoner spent 2 actions to cast a spell. Then they had the Eidolon move, then the Summoner was going to mount the Eidolon, and then have the Eidolon attack.

They never said what feats they were using.

As with everyone else, they begin with 3 actions between them. They could use Act Together first, spending 2 actions. That would give them the 2-action spell and then the eidolon's single action movement, which I'm assuming was a Stride. That leaves 1 action, which they could use to Mount the eidolon. They would not have an action left for the eidolon to Strike unless they were hasted

Auditing a summoner's turn can be tricky, so sit down with them (physically or virtually) and discuss exactly how summoner tandem actions work. Especially Act Together, which may only be used once per turn. Or just direct them to this thread. They should declare beforehand when they intend to use Act Together so actions can be properly accounted for

[HammerJack]

IceniQueen wrote:

So the round was Summoner spent 2 actions to cast a spell. Then they had the Eidolon move, then the Summoner was going to mount the Eidolon, and then have the Eidolon attack.

They never said what feats they were using.

So, alternating actions is perfectly legal, but I dont think this turn can be legal without them being Quickened.

Act Together for 2 actions could cover the spell and the eidolon's movement for 2 actions. But there's nothing in summoner that would allow Mount and Strike for 1 action, since Act Together can't be used a second time in one turn, and none of the other, more specific, Tandem actions support that.

[YuriP]

As everyone said in practice Act Together is:

The player chooses an action or 2 or 3 actions activity to do with summoner or the eidolon and then gets an “extra” action to use with the other side.

If the player chooses to use only one action using Act Together to do something the summoner or eidolon will use this action and the other side will get an “extra” action to do something too and so the player will still have 2 more actions to freely do something with summoner or eidolon in any order, but these actions cannot merge with Act Together as an activity.

If the player chooses to use 2-actions with an activity using Act Together to do something the summoner or eidolon will use this activity and the other side will get an “extra” action to do something too and so the player will still have 1 more action to freely do something with summoner or eidolon in any order, but this action cannot merge with Act Together as an activity nor be merged with the another player action because it is part of the Act Together activity.

If the player chooses to use 3-actions with an activity using Act Together to do something the summoner or eidolon will use this activity and the other side will get an “extra” action to do something.

This way Act Together provides the player 4-actions to use effectively but it needs to use at last one action with the other side and is unable to use two 2-actions activity.

IceniQueen wrote:

So the round was Summoner spent 2 actions to cast a spell. Then they had the Eidolon move, then the Summoner was going to mount the Eidolon, and then have the Eidolon attack.

They never said what feats they were using.

Here we have 5 actions in practice so it's not possible unless the summoner or the eidolon is quickened.

Act Toguether (2 actions used and one extra action got to use with the other side):

Quote:

2 actions to cast a spell with the summoner.
+

Get an action extra action and use it to make Eidolon move.

then

1 action to mount the Eidolon.

With this player already used its 3 actions (2 with Act Together (that was used to cast and got an additional action to move the eidolon) e one to Mount) so it doesn't get any more action to use.

Only if the eidolon was quickened with an effect that allows to use this action to Strike that it was able to use one more action.