Spell attack damage modifier


Rules Discussion


Hello, I see people are adding spell casting modifier to damage rolls of spell attacks. In Foundry for pf2. I see the same rule applied.

I do not see mention of this in official rules. Even the spell itself does not indicate to add spellcasting modifier. Where is this rule indicated?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There is no general rule to add spellcasting ability modifier to damage rolls for spells. There are specific spells that include that (but very few after the remaster, it used to be common in cantrips).

If you're seeing this frequently on Foundry (instead of mistaking some other source of additional damage like sorcerer's Sorcerous Potency feature for ability modifier), it may be that you're playing with an old version of Foundry, running the old versions of cantrips. What spells are you seeing this on?


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SelinarYaez wrote:

Hello, I see people are adding spell casting modifier to damage rolls of spell attacks. In Foundry for pf2. I see the same rule applied.

I do not see mention of this in official rules. Even the spell itself does not indicate to add spellcasting modifier. Where is this rule indicated?

Originally in PF2, many cantrips did add your spellcasting modifier to their spell damage (while many others didn't). This was removed in the remaster.

If you're still seeing this in foundry, the most likely reason is that the version of the spell that is being cast is the original version. I found in some of my games that Foundry didn't automatically update already existing spells on characters and I had to pull out the new versions myself.

If people are doing it outside of Foundry, then the most likely explanations are that they're still using the old version of the spells or that they are using a house rule (this change was a nerf to caster damage in most cases and was unpopular with some folks who may have simply decided not to use it). That'd be a question for your GM.


Ok. Thank you. I am running latest version of foundry with latest of pf2.

In Foundry, I see this with Ray of Frost and Phantom pain for example. Heightened phantom pain damage is 4d4 +4. I do not know if this plus is the spell casting modifier. I am making an assumption. Ok, we will ignore the plus as we have done so far.

I am running Abomination Vaults. Old school dungeon crawl. Reminds of my AD&D2 days playing Temple of Elemental Evil. Blast from the past!


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"Phantom Pain" never added the spellcasting modifier to damage.

"Ray of Frost" is the legacy version (remastered version included renaming to "Frostbite"). Again, neither legacy nor remastered version adds the spellcasting modifier to damage.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Conscious Meat wrote:

"Phantom Pain" never added the spellcasting modifier to damage.

"Ray of Frost" is the legacy version (remastered version included renaming to "Frostbite"). Again, neither legacy nor remastered version adds the spellcasting modifier to damage.

Ray of Frost did originally add spellcasting attribute modifier, though. And on Foundry, cases like a character built using that spell from an old version of the PF2E Legacy module still having their spell include spellcasting attribute modifier in the damage can happen.

Phantom Pain is the bigger question for "why is this happening?" The caster isn't someone like a sorcerer or a psychic with Unleash Psyche active with other class features that add damage to a spell are they? The actual caster was never described.


The caster is a canker cultist in abomination vaults. The spell description does not mention of any pluses. I will continue to ignore the pluses. I thought I would ask just to confirm if I was missing a rule as to why. Thank you


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Ah, an NPC.

Well, that one at least does not have any features that would boost spell damage like that.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That does explain it a little. It is an NPC from a premaster AP, and that does have premaster cantrips on it that add the flat damage.

The Phantom Pain is still weird, though. That doesn't add any flat damage when I throw one into my Foundry world.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's possible that the NPC had a template or level modulation applied to it? The Elite template on a creature increases the damage of all of its offensive abilities by a flat +2 - unless they are limited abilities like dragon's breath or spell slots, in which they are increased by +4.

Was the Canker Cultist in question an Elite Canker Cultist? Foundry does automatically apply template changes, and this is the only way I know that enemy could possibly be gaining extra flat damage on a ranked spell.

Dark Archive

I second BigHatMarisa, it tooks us quite some time to find this, we wondered why a 3 action harm from an enemy would get that bonus.

Radiant Oath

Conscious Meat wrote:

"Phantom Pain" never added the spellcasting modifier to damage.

"Ray of Frost" is the legacy version (remastered version included renaming to "Frostbite"). Again, neither legacy nor remastered version adds the spellcasting modifier to damage.

Note that Ray of Frost also had a range of 120'. Frostbite is 60'.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That's true... but I'm not sure what connection it has to the question?

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