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Cantrips are not functionally identical to Ranked spells. Both do use the Cast a Spell activity to cast them, but so do innate spells, focus spells, and items with Cast a Spell activation. So giving the Cast a Spell activity as part of Minor Magic is necessary for casting those given cantrips to work.
I don't believe that a spellcasting dedication grants a spellcasting class feature. But that is somewhat irrelevant to this thread.
Minor Magic does not grant a spellcasting class feature. And it does not give the Learn a Spell activity (which also requires the spellcasting class feature).
Minor Magic gives the Cast a Spell activity and two cantrips.
That's all. The Rogue would not be able to learn Rank 1 spells of their chosen tradition (and wouldn't have any spell slots to cast them with anyway). They also would not be able to cast either those known cantrips or any other cantrips or Rank spells from items with Cast a Spell activation such as spellhearts, scrolls, and wands.
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hey argue that because the feat specifically calls out gaining the "Cast a Spell" activity, they should have access to the rest of the spell list, and gain the "Learn a Spell" activity as well.
“Cast a Spell” and “Learn a Spell” are distinct activities. Having either does not grant the other.
They also advocate that Cantrips are functionally different from Ranked Spells,
They are correct about this premise, but their conclusion does not follow.
they shouldn't need the "Cast a Spell" activity to Cast only the cantrip
Incorrect.
the activity grants them access to the list.
Incorrect, but I’m curious as to their (incorrect) reasoning.
the feat "Minor Magic" grants ONLY the 2 chosen cantrips
Correct.
Cantrip are functionally identical to Ranked Spells,
Incorrect.
including the necessity to use the "Cast a Spell" activity prior to (or as part of) actually using thr cantrip?
This part is correct, though.
I don't believe that a spellcasting dedication grants a spellcasting class feature. But that is somewhat irrelevant to this thread.Agreed on the irrelevancy on the dedication itself, but may be relevant for the Rogue Player.
I believe both of us agree that in order to gain proper spellcasting from Cast a Spell activations you need an archetype with the spellcasting benefits.OP can themselves decide on the PFS ruling of needing Basic Spellcasting Benefits or if dedication alone is equal to having a Spellcasting Class Feature.
There is still quite a split camp on whether a spellcasting multiclass archetype will give the spellcasting class feature immediately with the dedication feat or if they get it from the Basic Spellcasting feat.
All I'm trying to do is mention that the ruling is still debated and not consistently ruled on.
They also would not be able to cast either those known cantrips or any other cantrips or Rank spells from items with Cast a Spell activation such as spellhearts, scrolls, and wands.Huh? Just to clarify so I understand the wording, This is in regard to if the rogue would know cantrips they still would not be able to cast anything outside the Cantrips gained trough Minor Magic, Which I believe are innate.
They technically aren't innate - nothing in the feat says it uses innate spellcasting. Though the feat doesn't really specify what type of spellcasting it does use and innate is not a bad match.
And the purpose of my statement here is that Minor Magic doesn't give a spellcasting class feature. So they can't activate Cast a Spell activated items. Not for ranked spells. Not for cantrips. Not even for items that contain the cantrips that they can cast directly (though I struggle to find a reason that they would want to be able to do that to begin with - it seems a bit redundant to cast the cantrips you know from an item instead of just casting them yourself).
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The Core Rulebook 4th Printing says this, about Minor Magic:
"Page 184: The rogue Minor Magic feat was unclear on whether the spells are innate spells or made you a spellcaster. We've amended the text to note that you gain the Cast a Spell activity. These spells work similarly to the ones you get from multiclass dedication feats for spellcasting classes. However, you don't gain a spell repertoire, spellbook, or similar, so your oddball rogue magic doesn't let you use abilities that require those."
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Nope. Yes, ET gives dedication, but all magic classes (almost?) have Cantrip Expansion feat which already does the same thing MM does but is connected to the archetype spellcasting normally. Well, Cantrip Expansion would be 4th level feat in this case but I'm not sure that's very important. There are probably some situations where you just MUST get two more cantrips when you already have 2 strictly at 2nd level, but this is rather a rare case I suppose.I thought the entire point of its existance was for Eldritch Trickster from the same source.Minor Magic does need a reprint though.BTW, it was always* a bad feat (*there are nuances). Why wouldn't the player take any magical dedication instead?
The use case I can think of is where you've taken a spellcasting dedication, but for some reason you just *need* to cast a cantrip or two from a different condition. I could also imagine picking it up as a Rogue Multiclass feat when you have no other spellcasting and aren't eligible for another Dedication feat.
Still don't think those are great choices, but I could understand ending up there.