Deathless Initiate, Ferocious Resolve, or Orc Atavism?


Advice


So... which one to pick? All of them fight to the death. Each have their own pros and cons.

Orc Atavism:
Pros: No Feat
Cons: Replaces everything but Darkvision; -2 to Int, Wis, or Cha; Bonus restricted to +2 Str; Staggered

Ferocious Resolve:
Pros: Only 1 feat; Only requires Half-Orc Ferocity Trait
Cons: Staggered; can't replace Half-Orc Ferocity Trait

Deathless Initiate
Pros: No traits or restrictions; Can Replace Half Orc Ferocity; Not Staggard; eventually takes no damage to act (Deathless Master); Extra Damage while at Deaths Door
Cons: Requires 2 feats to come online, 4 for maximum benefit

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Deathless Initiate can also take a level dip into Unbreakable Fighter, reducing the number of required Feats required to take.

What do you all think?


Depends on what your overall build is, and how soon you want things to come online.

Deathless initiate with fighter dip gives the best benefit overall if you can meet the prerequisite feats, but isn't available until level 9 (BAB +9 for deathless master) at the earliest. The feats also have combat tricks associated if you can take combat stamina.

Ferocious resolve + ferocious action takes 2 feats, but could be online by level 3. Could add on fight on at level 5.


Deathless Initiate requires 3 feats because you have to meet the prerequisite for Die Hard and cannot be gained until at least 6th level if you have a bonus feat available. This means you have either be a fighter or dip a level for the bonus feat or wait till 7th level.

Ferocious Resolve only requires one feat and other than that does not give up anything.

Orc Atavism means you take a penalty on one mental stat and give up a +2 bonus to intimidation. It also may prevent you from taking other alternative racial traits. Technically you also give up Orc Blood, but all you really lose is the ability to count as human. You still count as both an Orc and a Half Orc for any effects relating to race.

Both Ferocious Resolve and orc Atavism allows you to pick up Ferocious Action. Deathless Initiate does not grant you the ferocity ability so does not qualify for Ferocious Action. Deathless Initiate is part of a chain so has further abilities you can pick up. If those are part of your build or those abilities complement your build it might be a good choice. If not the cost and waiting for it to come online make it a less than ideal choice.

If you build is feat starved and you can afford to the penalty to a mental stat Orc Atavism seems a fairly decent choice. Keep in mind that most martial classes have very low skill points so dumping INT often means you have almost no skills. Dumping WIS means a penalty Will saves and Perception as well as other WIS based skills. If you are not playing a paladin or other CHA based class dumping CHA does not have as much effect as the other two mental stats. So, a ranger taking Orc Atavism is probably a good choice, it would not be for a paladin. A half orc paladin with ferocity is actually a very good build. A half orc paladin with fey foundling and ferocious resolve is very tough to take down.


Unfortunately; I am unable to edit the original post for some reason (There doesn't appear to be an edit button anymore), but you do bring up some interesting points Mysterious Stranger.

My original post, regarding the Deathless Initiate feats "only requiring 2 feats to come online," I was referring to the Staggered condition while under the effects of Diehard. Deathless Initiate requires 3 feats to become unstaggered, and Deathless Master requires 4 to no longer take damage while acting under 0 HP.

Unfortunately, Ferocious Action isn't PFS Legal (which is why it went under my radar during the searches). However, two other feats also work but with their own limitations: Unyielding Ferocity requires 19 Constitution to take but gives the ability to use Full-Round Attacks, and Animal Ferocity requires +3 BAB but causes a -5 Penalty on all your attacks. Ferocious Action is the best feat though, especially for Ragers, since it removes Staggered rather than just allowing Full-Action Attacks.

Ferocious Resolve does prevent you from taking any Racial Traits that would remove Half-Orc Ferocity - as that is required for the feat. But you are correct that it doesn't cost anything else.

Let me revise the chart with what we have so far:

Orc Atacism
Pros: No Feat requirements; Unlocks "Orc Ferocity" Feats
Cons: Extremely Limited Racial Trait flexibility (Only Darkvision can be changed); removes Human from Orc Blood Trait; take a -2 to Int, Wis, or Cha; +2 bonus is limited to Str ONLY; Best Ferocity Option isn't PFS Legal

Ferocious Resolve
Pros: Only 1 Feat requirement; Unlocks "Orc Ferocity" Feats; More Racial Trait flexibility; +2 Intimidate while at "Death's Door"
Cons: Limited Racial Trait flexibility (Cannot substitute Half-Orc Ferocity); Best Ferocity Option isn't PFS Legal

Diehard
Pros: Unlocks "Diehard" Required feats; Full flexibility with Racial Traits; +2 Damage while at "Death's Door"
Cons Requires 2 Feats or Undying Fighter Level Dip; Deathless Feat BAB requirements (+6 for Initiate, +9 for Master)


And now for something completely different: Just a trait (combat) - just need to be using firearms.

So, with that chart, looks like the questions become: PFS or home? How many feats are available to you? Will you have the BAB requirements? How much do you like Sacred tattoo + Fate's favored on your half-orc?

The Exchange

Of those options, Orc Atavism is the best choice for a "pure combat" type adventure. If your campaign includes more social and exploratory time, I'd be hesitant to take the mental negative score. (To be fair: I personally love social characters and don't ever tank mental scores for extra point-buy. But that's just me.) I'd spend the feat for Ferocious Resolve in that situation.

The Deathless feat chain is really fun to give an NPC, but it's too expensive for me as a player. Especially since anything past Initiate has an additional prereq. With one caveat: Meeting the prereqs for Deathless Initiate means you also meet the prereqs for Tenacious Survivor. (Not a PFS legal feat.) Taking those two together are an amazing combo for a pure physical character like a bloodrager or barbarian who can be utterly fearless.

Also; note that a half-orc can get Endurance for "free" by trading out the Intimidating racial trait.

Sidebar: You can't edit a post after an hour from initial submission.


Yeah, I think there are too many negatives from Racial Trait selection for Orc Atavism to be worth it unless you're extremely feat-starved. Ferocious Resolve is already good enough, and the PFS Legal Ferocity Feats aren't that bad. But if you don't mind giving up a lot of the Half-Orcs bread and butter and don't mind dumping a Mental Stat (most likely Charisma), it's a pretty good option.

I'm definitely interested in making a Deathless Feat Tree character for PFS if I'm ever able to find a 1st edition table again.

My only experience with playing this type of build was with Orc Atavism though... He had 20 Str / 14 Dex / 16 Con..... (*cough* 7 Int / 7 Wis / 5 Cha *cough*). He was... Interesting to play. XD

(Roleplayed him as "too stupid for magic" with Bear's Balance to auto rage instead of becoming feared, and gaining Superstition as a Rage Power <this almost costed him his life btw>. TLDR; Natural Weapon Barbarians are fun, dying because you can't get healed because you're unconscious and raging so you don't die by Barbarian Rage Death isn't...)

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