!!!Spoilers!!! Discussion on changes to the BBEG in Kingmaker

[Fozzyman]

First and foremost, if you are about to start the Kingmaker AP with your GM who goes by Fozzy in discord, get out of here right now!

That aside, hello all! I am going to be starting the Kingmaker AP as the GM for my longtime group. I read through a bunch of the material and also played the Owlcat game, so I am relatively up to date on the general story arc. Overall, its awesome and I can't wait to start it. I snagged the Foundry version of the AP and its also incredible. My only real complaint is the BBEG. I don't find the Lantern King at all interesting. So I am gonna change him to be Choral the Conqueror returning to Brevoy. With all his interactions in the area previously and the idea that he was likely a dragon all along (he for sure will be in my version), I like him way more as a threat to the entire region.

So here is where the rub comes. I definitely need to change Nyrissa to fit into this new narrative. I am playing with the idea that she is a green dragon, as they prefer a solitary life in a forest, and the Gronzi Forest would fit nicely. Having Choral as a dragon as well, makes the connection between the two easier. I would still like to have her tied to the First World pretty actively, as to not change EVERYTHING about her in the AP. The First World is likely where Choral has been hanging out for the last 200 years. Thinking maybe she and Choral were lovers or kin of some nature? Maybe Choral trapped her in some other way that makes her subservient to him through Briar (I still really want to incorporate the sword). Maybe Nyrissa was hanging out in the First World when Choral disappeared from Brevoy and he went there? There are a lot of possibilities, but I am looking to the peeps here who have run through Kingmaker previously for ideas.

Any thoughts here would be VERY appreciated. Thanks!

[Loreguard]

There seems like some options to potentially make Nyrissa a primal dragon, which could definitely have ties to both Dragons (to tie in your Choral link) and fae/first world to help maintain story continuity.

I'm not a familiar with the later chapters, so I don't know how to tie Choral into them that well. I do however have to say that I'd have really big questions why hey left, and then why now was when he decided to come back, and why he came back hidden in the wilderness, and didn't just reappear at his capital and declare himself the leader again wresting the nation back from the 'servants' he left it with while he was gone.

While it seems very believable that he might have been a red (or such) dragon the whole time along with his family, that story also leaves one to question what they (the dragon family) wanted. Because if it was just wealth, and control of people, they would have stayed. Instead it seems very likely that they took over the lands for some ulterior motive, that once achieved, they left overnight to pursue that motive.

There was some evidence that he had some interest in the Observatory at Skywatch. Skywatch was one of the last places to fall to him, and he had an interest in re-furbishing the site, so it would seem very likely that his choice to appear, and his choice to vanish likely had origins in something he needed to learn from the observatory, and once he learned what he needed, there was no further need for bothering with the puny humans any longer.

All this said, I'm left wondering why he would care to bother to come back and try to retake what wasn't worth bothering with before. Is the key to his next step somehow in the wilderness outside of Brevoy, instead of Brevoy now. And if this is the case, why didn't they come here immediately while they ruled Brevoy. Or it if was tied to this time, why didn't they use their immense lifespan to simply rule for hundreds of years and rule until the appointed time.

You talk about him potentially having to go to the first world? That could potentially easily explain a long time, as I can imagine him finding himself at least temporarily trapped in the first world for long past a normal mortal lifespan. Perhaps his draconic retainers all had to leave to follow him to insure his ability to eventually return. Otherwise I'd have expected him to have had a plan to leave behind royal family to 'lead' his assets until he needed them again.

Is he fighting Nyrissa's plans, is he trying to help her, or is he assisting her with them, but rather than truly helping her he is doing it to further his own plans which will be revealed to betray her in the end. Does he care about Brevoy any longer, or was it a nation discarded earlier in life, because it didn't really mean anything? What is it that he really wants? Why are the PCs and their nation in the way of this?

[Loreguard]

Also consider, what type of dragon would he really be. What if he were an Occult Dragon, and somehow what he truly wants is to re-instate Fate, Omens, and Prophecy, and his original rule in Brevoy was to access the Observatory and make proper calculations. Then he had to perhaps fetch something from the First World, and bring it to the proscribed place in the universe, at the right time.

If he succeeds perhaps it will bind everyone and squeeze out free will, brining order to even the forces seen as chaos, letting them be known and controlled in their diversity. [you know cosmic destruction of freedom for everyone ending]

Don't worry, if your players fail, there will be a giant reset, and everyone will forget everything for a span of time that will be called the GAP. ;)

[Fozzyman]

Loreguard wrote:

Also consider, what type of dragon would he really be. What if he were an Occult Dragon, and somehow what he truly wants is to re-instate Fate, Omens, and Prophecy, and his original rule in Brevoy was to access the Observatory and make proper calculations. Then he had to perhaps fetch something from the First World, and bring it to the proscribed place in the universe, at the right time.

If he succeeds perhaps it will bind everyone and squeeze out free will, brining order to even the forces seen as chaos, letting them be known and controlled in their diversity. [you know cosmic destruction of freedom for everyone ending]

Don't worry, if your players fail, there will be a giant reset, and everyone will forget everything for a span of time that will be called the GAP. ;)

Oh man, this is exactly what I was looking for. These are all great considerations! I really like the idea of the Occult Dragon and restoring Fate/Omens/Prophecy. Removing free will for an overarching control is *chef's kiss*. Its the legit antithesis of how my PC's play all their games. This is not something that remotely entered my mind. Choral being an Ancient Omen Dragon, could work wonderfully. Defintely great to tie to Skywatch, which was acutally set up by the Surtova's originally. Its kinda perfect.

I think Nyrissa would be an Adult Crystal Dragon, and was partnered to Choral. This can completely tie into Briar being the control mechanism for Choral over Nyrissa, with Nyrissa being Choral's "steward" for the material plane, while he is planning how to utilize Skywatch. The PC's could be in opposition to this (outside of the general reason of survival), when they find out the whole story from Briar. Who oddly enough, is going to be the patron for one of my PCs who is a witch. Being used by a dragon to further a scheme of dominance across the land is a pretty solid reason to fight.

If you have anymore thoughts, please feel free to share, but this was AWESOME. I appreciate the thought put in. Thanks again!