| Feros |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A player at my table suggested that the use of partial boosts is too limiting, and I thought of it as a little complicated to explain and a rather inelegant solution to the removal of Ability Scores in the remastered rules. I came up with this house rule that is simpler and keeps the maximum attribute modifiers at the same levels as the partial boosts system. Replace the wording under Attribute Boosts on page 19 of the Player Core with the following:
An attribute boost increases an attribute modifier’s value by 1. At 1st level, a character can never have any attribute modifier that’s higher than +4. This maximum increases to +5 at 10th level and to +6 at 20th level.
When your character receives an attribute boost, the rules indicate whether it must be applied to a specific attribute modifier, to one of a limited list, or whether it is a “free” attribute boost that can be applied to any attribute modifier of your choice. Dwarves, for example, receive an attribute boost to their Constitution modifier and their Wisdom modifier, as well as one free attribute boost, which can be applied to any other attribute.
When you gain multiple attribute boosts at the same time, you must apply each one to a different modifier.
| Feros |
This rule does increase the total of attribute modifiers when a player chooses to increase scores above +4, but under the RAW a player can choose to not raise a modifier above +4 and by 20th level they would get the same modifier total as this. I’m going to see how it affects play, but the highest PC modifiers will still be in line with the RAW, so I don’t anticipate too much power creep.
| Teridax |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
One important thing: apex items you receive should also raise the cap under your system by 1, otherwise characters would no longer be incentivized to use apex items to boost their key attribute like they normally do at 17th level. The normal progression for a key attribute is +4 at level 1, +5 at level 10, +6 at level 17 (when you get an apex item), and +7 at level 20, so the progression you list almost has it entirely right.
I do agree that partial boosts are not very elegant, nor were the +1 ability score increases before them. My impression of this proposed change is that because it caps attribute mods rather than lessens the benefit you get from boosting them, players would instead boost some other attribute rather than their key attribute at levels 5 and 15, while being able to boost their other attributes much more quickly. If you start with a +4/2/2/2 setup, for example, you could boost your lesser attribute mods to +6 by level 20, when they'd normally cap at +5, and boost a fifth score to +1 at level 5, then +2 at level 15. As written, it looks to be an overall buff to player characters that would mostly take effect at high levels, even if the PCs would also be operating at a relative -1 to their key attribute at those levels. Obviously, this would change the game's balance somewhat (your PCs would be able to have better defenses overall, higher skill mods, and probably better Perception too), but that's something for the table to decide to take on, and I don't think this change would be so disruptive that it would completely change how the game plays either.
| Feros |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One important thing: apex items you receive should also raise the cap under your system by 1, otherwise characters would no longer be incentivized to use apex items to boost their key attribute like they normally do at 17th level. The normal progression for a key attribute is +4 at level 1, +5 at level 10, +6 at level 17 (when you get an apex item), and +7 at level 20, so the progression you list almost has it entirely right.
Good point. I'll add that to the apex item ruleset.
I do agree that partial boosts are not very elegant, nor were the +1 ability score increases before them. My impression of this proposed change is that because it caps attribute mods rather than lessens the benefit you get from boosting them, players would instead boost some other attribute rather than their key attribute at levels 5 and 15, while being able to boost their other attributes much more quickly. If you start with a +4/2/2/2 setup, for example, you could boost your lesser attribute mods to +6 by level 20, when they'd normally cap at +5, and boost a fifth score to +1 at level 5, then +2 at level 15. As written, it looks to be an overall buff to player characters that would mostly take effect at high levels, even if the PCs would also be operating at a relative -1 to their key attribute at those levels. Obviously, this would change the game's balance somewhat (your PCs would be able to have better defenses overall, higher skill mods, and probably better Perception too), but that's something for the table to decide to take on, and I don't think this change would be so disruptive that it would completely change how the game plays either.
This is pretty much my take on it as well. I'll be taking notes on the feel of how challenging high-level play remains with this rule. We'll have ample opportunity to test it as we're playing Prey for Death, which starts at 14th and goes through to 18th level.
| Feros |
So initial analysis of the rule at 14th, 15th and 16th levels. There has been no noticeable reduction in difficulty for each class's primary functions or secondary abilities. The players still feel challenged and we have had a few near deaths in combat. In exploration mode there was no difference at 14th, and only a small increase in success for the PCs at 15th and 16th. None of the players was under the impression that things had gotten easier, though they seemed to feel more confident in trying different approaches to problem solving than they used to.
Example: When doing research or interrogations, players would use some of their trained and expert skills to aid or make outright skill checks to attempt the challenge. They did not always succeed, and the increase in successes overall was minimal, but there was enough of a chance that they were willing to try it.
Considering that this house rule increases in effect over time, I think we can safely extrapolate no significant difference in play below 15th level. So far I see no reason not to keep this rule going forward. Will see how 17th level feels before making a definitive decision though.
| Helmic |
I also find partial boosts very irritating - I don't like the system encouraging players to choose between getting their reward now or later, especially when on a meta level there's no guarantee there will be a later (due to IRL scheduling conflicts terminating a campaign). I also like the idea of gradual boosts, I think getting to increase an attribute more often is more fun than doing it all at once at 5th level, but the system *does* assume you get your boosts at certain levels.
So I made my own rules to address this. The goal is to make as flexible a levelling system as possible while still playing nice with the vanilla assumptions of the system, not allowing warpriests to get a higher to-hit than they would RAW. It is intentional that characters can quickly level what was once a low attribute into a relatively high attribute, if they spend the necessary boosts - the point is to remove as many situations as possible where a player would start with a suboptimal array in hopes of getting an optimal array at a later level. If you could've gotten it with a respec in attributes, it is intentional that you can do it with these rules without respecs.
GRADUAL ATTRIBUTE BOOSTS (NO PARTIAL BOOSTS)
Create your character as normal at level 1. After level 1, you are no longer required to have boosts be applied to different attributes - for example, you may boost your DEX from 0 to +1 at level 3, and to +2 at level 4, and to +4 at level 5 so long you obey all other rules.
At levels 3 and 4, you may boost any one attribute you wish up to a maximum of +3 (or up to +4 for your Key Attribute).
At levels 8 and 9 you may boost any one attribute you wish up to a maximum of +4.
At levels 5, 10, 13, 15, 18, and 20, you may boost two different attributes or boost one attribute twice to a maximum of +4.
Instead of boosting two different attributes or one attribute twice:
* Beginning at level 10, you may boost your Key Attribute from +4 to +5.
* Beginning at level 15, you may boost any attribute from +4 to +5.
* At level 20, you may boost your Key Attribute from +5 to +6.
Do not consider effects from apex items when using these rules - simply apply the effect of apex items afterwards. A level 20 character may have their Key Attribute at +7 or may have a fourth attribute at +5 or higher when factoring in the bonus from an apex item (even when using the extra caps on attributes).
EXTRA CAPS ON ATTRIBUTES
The above rules will only result in legal attribute arrays you could achieve rules as written, but some of those arrays are typically gated behind obnoxious pre-planning (requiring character to play most of the game without their key attribute at the maximum) and result in unusually lopsided arrays.
Optionally, you may impose a cap of three attributes at +4 starting at level 5, which raises to a cap of three attributes at +5 starting at level 10 (and as many attributes at +4 as you wish). This results in more "normal" arrays with a good mix of high, medium, and low attributes that one would typically get if they were not specifically optimizing for a late game character.