Wizard Campaign

[Fencer_guy]

I'm thinking about doing an all Arcane only campaign. (wizard, sorc, magus) You could multi-class but your arcane level has to be at least one higher. ie.. Fighter 2 Wizard 3 or cleric 1 wizard 2. Unless its a prestige class that is arcane based then that becomes your "wizard" level.

I'm wondering thought if anyone has done something like this before? Did it go well/bad stuff like that.

Thanks.

[Sebastian]

I've never done anything like that, but I've always wanted to. I tend to spiral off into house rules ("I know! I'll use the gestalt rules and link various classes to a school of magic, and have one gestalt super wizard class that's a wizard/wizard!") whenever I start down that path.

That said, the last time I made a run at it, the arcane classes were still only wiz, sorc, and bard (and, if you bend the rules a little bit to let in a healer, clerics of ye old magic god). Now you've got a whole lotta options depending on how wide you cast the net (summoner, witch, magus, alchemist, the new advanced class arcane classes), so you've probably got a pretty wide set of choices for PCs.

I suspect that the 15 min adventuring day problem (to the extent it's an issue in your game) will be even more pronounced - an all arcane party is likely to super nova and then want to rest and regain spells before venturing out again. Whether you see that as a bug or a feature is up to you.

[KestrelZ]

That depends on your players. If they are more than willing to do such a thing, go for it.

One thing about adventures that are no longer "four person bands" (arcane mage, divine mage, martial, and skill monkey) is that CRs become wonky. An all martial group will have a very tough time with swarms, for example. An all arcane group may find constructs much tougher than the CR.

So long as healing potions, or healing arcane users (healing bards, healing witches) are present, you don't have to factor encounters for lack of healing.

An all arcane group also "flips the switch" real fast as level progresses. At low levels, arcane mages struggle to survive. At around 7th level or so, the options the group brings to the table can change planned encounters quickly.

I've run groups that had all skill monkeys, all martials, all arcane mages, and all divine casters before. In the end, no matter the group it is best to tailor adventures to the tastes of the players and make sure they have fun.

[LazarX]

Fencer_guy wrote:

I'm thinking about doing an all Arcane only campaign. (wizard, sorc, magus) You could multi-class but your arcane level has to be at least one higher. ie.. Fighter 2 Wizard 3 or cleric 1 wizard 2. Unless its a prestige class that is arcane based then that becomes your "wizard" level.

I'm wondering thought if anyone has done something like this before? Did it go well/bad stuff like that.

Thanks.

Yes it's been done. And it's gone both brilliantly and horribly.

[marcryser]

I have done this before with Thay in the Forgotten Realms. Mages are the ruling elite and everyone else is a tool to be used. One thing that I altered was to allow the wizard to take a feat (6th level caster pre-requisite) that allowed them to replace any previous familiar with a gnoll. The Gnoll becomes the bodyguard and/or shocktrooper. There was even a mechanism for controlling more than one gnoll but I don't remember how I ran that.

[LazarX]

It does help if you can give some more depth to the concept beyond "everyone rolls an arcane class". Define the background and give some kind of reason for a group like this to come together.

Keep in mind also that "arcane class" isn't much of a limiter, nor definer, when you take into account the sheer number of arcane classes that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Maybe you should consider a tighter focus. An all-wizard or all bard.. Order of the Stick has already covered the all-sorcerer group. :)

[Deadmanwalking]

You left out Bard and Witch. And Summoner, I suppose, but the other two are more important given the need for healing in most groups. You can throw in Alchemists if you like, though they aren't quite technically Arcane.

With all those (and especially a Healing Patron Witch...Restoration can't be gotten by many other Arcane casters), at this point there are definitely enough Arcane Classes to make this a very workable plan, if not quite as easy as the All Divine party.

[Sebastian]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

You can throw in Alchemists if you like,though they aren't quite technically Arcane.

Just curious about this - why aren't alchemists technically arcane? Aren't their infusions arcane based? It might be that I'm approaching this from the wrong framework - I've always assumed that magic fits into the arcane bucket or the divine bucket. If alchemist's aren't arcane, and they clearly aren't divine, what are they? Alchemical?

[blahpers]

Sebastian wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

You can throw in Alchemists if you like,though they aren't quite technically Arcane.

Just curious about this - why aren't alchemists technically arcane? Aren't their infusions arcane based? It might be that I'm approaching this from the wrong framework - I've always assumed that magic fits into the arcane bucket or the divine bucket. If alchemist's aren't arcane, and they clearly aren't divine, what are they? Alchemical?

Because they aren't spellcasters at all. Their infusions are neither spells nor spell-like abilities, and thus they are neither arcane nor divine. (Note that the only time the word "arcane" shows up in the entire alchemist class writeup is the line about not needing to decipher arcane writings to copy from a wizard's spellbook.)

[Deadmanwalking]

Yep. What blahpers said. Alchemists aren't actually spellcasters at all. Thematically, they fit with the Arcane classes, but mechanically they're actually closer to the martial ones (especially things like Spell Sunder and the Major Magic Rogue Talent). They have a class feature that mimics spellcasting, not actual casting.

[nate lange]

opening up the advanced class guide would help, especially at low levels (when a bloodrager would add a lot of durability), but its definitely feasible. you can even represent most/all of the traditional roles:

melee:
- a magus.
- a sylvan sorcerer can have one of the best companions in the game- buffed it should be a force in melee (boon companion brings it up to full progression, and they have access to some great buffs for it, since they can target it with self-only spells).
- an eldritch knight. sohei 1/empyreal sorcerer 1 (as an early entry aasimar) is particularly interesting (IMO), or a trapper ranger 1/scryer wizard 1 into it doubles as a skill/trap guy too...
- a well built scarred witch doctor can be decent in melee (use a reach build and use standard actions on buffs to up combat ability while relying on AoOs for damage in early rounds)

ranged:
- myrmidarch magus
- spellslinger wizard
- any blaster

healing/divine:
- bard has heals and some divine buffs
- witches have heals and (iirc) some status removal with the right patron
- any full arcane caster with a 1 level cleric dip (with the trickery domain, or fate inquisition) can pick up 10 levels of MT (to add 6th level divine spells)
- a magaambyan arcanist (collegiate arcanist on pfsrd) gains an aura like a cleric and can add druid spells to its spell list

skills:
- bards.
- the aforementioned ranger/wizard/EK (for trapfinding and broader skill list)
- many/most characters will have decent number of skill points from being Int based, just coordinate with each other to cover more ground.

[Sebastian]

Huh. I reread the alchemist class description and see what you mean - technically, they aren't arcane spellcasters. With that, I'll stop derailing the thread.

[Gregory Connolly]

I would imagine that Magus, Witch, Bard, Wizard would play very close to how a traditional party of Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard does.

[voideternal]

I GM'd Carrion Crown once with a Wizard, Witch, Bard, and Sorcerer.

My experience:
Early levels are rough.

A lot of Carrion Crown encounters end with "The whole party flies. The enemy dies."

When the PCs get the jump or when the PCs and enemy fight on-initiative, everything is okay. But when the enemy gets the jump on the PCs (read: grapple, ghoul paralysis, unconscious poison, negative levels when party is unbuffed), the battles got really unpredictable. Basically, the party is extremely buff-reliant.

The casters focused on blasting, because disabling for 1 round / level debuff just isn't good enough without a big dumb fighter on your side.

At level 15, everyone grabs Spell Perfection and the game changes. Game balance is no more.