Wild Caller (HotW) archetype change my eidolon DV ?

[Spencer_qian]

Hi, I’m creating a wild caller character (HOTW).

And then they tell me that as my eidolon becomes a plant, its DV becomes d8 instead of D10, can someone tell me who is right please?

[happykj]

D10 is its class HD, since your eidolon dont have racial HD then it shouldnt be altered

[Mysterious Stranger]

The Eidolon does not have class levels, the summoner does. Normally an eidolon is an outsider that has d10 HD, but the archetype changes that to plant which has d8 for HD. The Wild Caller from HotW has its own forms that are used instead of the standard forms of the class. Hero Labs changes the HD of those forms to d8 when they are selected. While not an official source the company that produces it has close ties to Piazo and often gets developer input about these things

[I grok do u]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The Eidolon does not have class levels, the summoner does. Normally an eidolon is an outsider that has d10 HD, but the archetype changes that to plant which has d8 for HD. The Wild Caller from HotW has its own forms that are used instead of the standard forms of the class. Hero Labs changes the HD of those forms to d8 when they are selected. While not an official source the company that produces it has close ties to Piazo and often gets developer input about these things

That's harsh. Guess that means it also drops to only 2+INT skill ranks per HD. Do they lose the outsider "class" skills for the plant ones, too (so they just have perception and stealth)?

[Diego Rossi]

Not so clear cut:

Eidolon wrote:

Description Source: Advanced Player's Guide

An eidolon's abilities are determined by the summoner's level and by the choices made using its evolution pool. Table 2–9: Eidolon Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the eidolon. Each eidolon possesses a base form that modifies these base statistics. Eidolons are outsiders for the purpose of determining which spells affect them.

Not a statement about the eidolon type, only about the spells that affect it.

Its type is stated in the share spell row:

Eidolon wrote:

A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider).

Eidolon wrote:

HD: This is the total number of 10-sided (d10) Hit Dice the eidolon possesses, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal.

A fixed dice, not linked to its type.

Eidolon wrote:

BAB: This is the eidolon's base attack bonus. An eidolon's base attack bonus is equal to its Hit Dice. Eidolons do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.

Good/Bad Saves: These are the eidolon's base saving throw bonuses. An eidolon possesses two good saving throws and one bad saving throw, determined by the creature's base form.

Skills: This lists the eidolon's total skill ranks.

All fixed values determined by the eidolon table, not by its type. Notice how the skills in the table are 4 x HDs, not 6 x HD as normal for outsiders.

The unfettered eidolon, at a rapid count, seems to have 48 skill points, way in excess of what a normal eidolon with int 7 would receive (12) or an outsider with the same intelligence would receive (40).

My opinion is that the table content and the texts explaining it haven't changed, only the type. It works as a 0 HD monster with a class, even if that "class" is Eidolon.

[Melkiador]

Since it’s not addressed in the archetype’s text, I assume the designer or editor didn't even consider this question. I would say the general rule of plant type doesn’t override the specifics of the other rules of the eidolon. The eidolon has its hit dice and BAB because that’s what its text and tables say it has and you are never told to use anything else.