Holy cowabunga. Jaxter Gorb. Just named right there in the FIRST SENTENCE. Incredible.
I legit never thought they'd reveal so much about Norgorber, keeping the mystery going forever. When I first started reading I was a little worried that the truth would be disappointing, but DAYUM that was a great backstory. I like how it shows that Norgorber's entire idea of the world is so heavily informed by the harm done to him in his youth and how he just keeps doubling down on being worse than his enemies to beat them.
The Prince of Propaganda aspect I love, but its very close to how the Reaper of Reputation has been portrayed (or maybe I've been portraying the Reaper wrong?). Such a great idea though, especially how it ties to the original Jaxter.
While I love getting all this delicious Norgorber lore, I do wonder how players will react to working so closely with him (them?). Trusting Norgorber in any of his aspects is a mistake, plus Norgorber and his cult have caused so many problems in this adventure. When the players see who they're working with, I expect many to understandably balk at the idea of working with the villainous deity. Using the existing material in the adventure should help give the players more context, but I can see this being a significant obstacle for many tables.
What do you think? How did the truth of Norgober land for you? Anyone upset he isn't actually four halflings in a trenchcoat?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What do you think? How did the truth of Norgober land for you? Anyone upset he isn't actually four halflings in a trenchcoat?
Instead of "four halflings in a trenchcoat," Norgorber being more of an online troll with four social media accounts for different purposes (my interpretation) seems appropriate. The whole "imposter syndrome" bit about needing to be "better/worse" than the four people that influenced him growing up is interesting and a more "realistic" take than some pseudo-epic mythography; IMO, the Prince of Propaganda persona has already been active in the rise/spread of Norgorber's faith, just not overtly as a recognized aspect.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
While I love getting all this delicious Norgorber lore, I do wonder how players will react to working so closely with him (them?). Trusting Norgorber in any of his aspects is a mistake, plus Norgorber and his cult have caused so many problems in this adventure. When the players see who they're working with, I expect many to understandably balk at the idea of working with the villainous deity.
The same as you, I also love it. It needs to be established in session 0 that only gods can kill gods. They will not be able to reach a power level to kill Norgorber.
I think the material is interesting enough that players will want to play along to learn all the secrets so they can "expose Norgorber" or counteract or weaken his most destructive plans.
Other players will think it's amazing to join Norgorber and defeat the PoP, and get Norgorber on "their side".
What do you think? How did the truth of Norgober land for you?
I loved it. It is beyond my expectations.
Still, a few things linger for me.
No follow up on War for the Crown and Agents of Edgewatch. I would have enjoyed a Vancaskerkin relative cameo. No corrupted aeons or new daemons, as we've seen previously. No Yellowtooth or explanation of his connection with Jorogumos and Wererats.
What exactly has been his accomplishments since he became a god? Where has he been? Does he have armies at the ready? What of his alliance with Hshura the Lord of Air?
I want a lot more! Book 1 did not feel like it fit in that well with Norgorberite themes. The gang in Vyre from book 1 did not give us new lore about the city, government or power structure. We don't know why the Hellknights like to send their armigers to Vyre either. Seems like an area that we still need a deeper exploration of.
Creative Director
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can't cover everything in one Adventure Path, especially when the primary focus of that Adventure Path is a whimsical opera plotline. There's plenty of time in the future to explore more about Norgorber, but just to manage expectations...
...while there's actually very few "secrets" in the setting we'll never explore, there's more secrets in the setting than we'll have time to explore, so we'll be picking and choosing stories to expand upon as we go. How those choices get made are largely on the lead developer for a project. In this case, I was more familiar with and interested the Norgorber story lines you saw expanded on in this campaign that in exploring ones from Agents of Edgewatch or War for the Crown (as those were not stories developed or outlined by me). It's not that those stories are less or more important overall... just that there's a limited amount of space to explore things and part of what keeps a developer passionate and interested in their job is allowing them to have agency over what stories they're interested in exploring—something I encourage all of the developers on the Narrative team to take advantage of when they're creating outlines for products they're the lead on. Myself included.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My main concern with the way this turns into a Norgorber story eventually is that it isn’t really set up to be one at the start, unless I’m missing something. I’ll have to do some thinking on how to run this so that the Norgorber stuff doesn’t feel like it’s coming out of nowhere, so my players are as excited about all the reveals as I am rather than confused as to why their characters should care.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can't cover everything in one Adventure Path, especially when the primary focus of that Adventure Path is a whimsical opera plotline. There's plenty of time in the future to explore more about Norgorber
That would be awesome!
I understand this was the Opera adventure, and we definitely have to wait for the Norgorber adventure to get all the goodies.
My feedback on Stage Fright is the Vyre portion didn't connect to the Kings and Queens of Vyre the way the middle and last book did, so it feels disjointed. Chapter 1 in Osirion felt a bit loose from the main story. Chapter 2 was Opera and Ashen cult stuff. Part 3 was a generic gang that didn't touch at all on Simandu, Jorogumos, Wererats, Dunrock, Hellknights, any of the stuff that has been teased about Vyre. I thought to myself, why?
Agents of Edgewatch had Reginald Vancaskerkin, who almost everyone agrees is an extremely epic character. Was hoping for just a cameo, mention, or a little something to connect between APs.
I really appreciated the Singer, Stalker, Skinsaw Man boss, as he connects directly to the Skinsaw Cult (Simandu and Delaraius). The more connection points, especially those that can be coordinated with other product lines, the better it sets up what happens next.
Developers have the hardest job and I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, I am so impressed with the work so far, and can't help it if I want just a bit more lore/backstory/breadcrumbs/hints at why things are the way they are, for my table and players.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am also curious about Stage Fright, because Richard Pett, the author, also wrote The Skinsaw Murders, the first Norgorber story in Pathfinder, as well as the Vyre backmatter article in Dance of the Damned in Hell's Rebels which brought us awesome Norgorberites like Hei Fen, and Songbird, Scion, Saboteur in War of the Crown which features Norgorber heavily.
If anyone could have brought connections to and new understandings of previous AP villains, it was certainly him. The man wrote so much of Vyre, but the book doesn't bring the city to life as much as I would have wanted. I think another chapter in Vyre instead of the one in Osirion would have probably done this AP a lot of good, but I'll start the adventure off at level 12 and chapter 2 for my table.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So! On Yellowtooth-- *gets yanked back by Thamir and stabbed*
And also-- *another stab*
Plus-- *stabbed*
I-- *stabbed*
*Many stabbings and a raise dead later...*
Upon reviewing what I can say, I have to gushed over Richard's article on Vyre in Dance of the Damned because it did so much heavy lifting on helping me connect dots as I was writing Book 3. I do encourage folks to give that backmatter a close read if you want to give Vyre a more prominent feature when starting the AP.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
-
My table, having played both of those APs, was SO amused when they saw Norgorber on the cover of one of the Curtain Call books. One of them actually said 'I swear to god if I get to have a THIRD PC slap down the Stabbing Beast my life will be complete.'
I think if we get around to running it, I may have to make him make an appearance. I know he gets mindwiped in between each defeat but just the feeling of deja vu when another spunky group of four people wipes the floor with him has GOT to take a toll.Thank you for this AP. I have a player who really has an affection for our Prince of Thieves and getting this close to him is going to make them very happy indeed.
Please Paizo, I need character token art you made for Stabbing Beast human form in War for the Crown released. I can't find it anywhere.