Is the Replay rule needed?

[Cascade]

During covid, a lot players withdrew, went online or found other ways to play. As our area stores seem to be getting back into a mix of play, we are seeing more and more conflicts in generating tables for people that played prior versus new players wanting to game weekly.

As we start reviewing play records, lots of conflicts show up on "already played...".

Does it matter?

I don't really care about some players trying to game the system, frankly it only generates more high level game options / seats for everyone.

We have plenty of purists that follow the rule but more and more it looks like people are simply ignoring it for the opportunities to participate.

Thoughts?

[Pirate Rob]

There's a long history about this.

Maybe we'd see something different now but Living Forgotten Realms, the OP campaign for D&D 4e allowed free and unlimited replay.

And while a player replaying here and there isn't a problem, in most locations it very quickly became a problem, especially for new player experience.

Tables basically immediately filled with experienced players replaying. Adventures very quickly lost their sheen as tables tended to rush more and more though them, not enjoying them for their plot, but from players wanting to try out their latest build.

As mentioned above it generates really miserable experiences for new players. When you've got 5 players who all know that searching the basement is where the treasure bundle is and 1 new player suffering through with the 5 replayers desperately trying to both not miss their treasure bundle and not overly metagame is surely a sight to behold.

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[Pirate Rob]

Here

Here

Here

Are some worthwhile discussions of the issue in the past if you want to see some of the foundation that today's decisions have been made on.

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As a note PFS2 has significantly more replayability that PF1.

In PF1, with 2 exceptions in the final 3rd of the campaign, replay was only available at level 1 with some extremely limited replay also added relatively late in the campaign based on GM stars and continuing to GM.

PF2 has heavy replayability for specials.
As of Sept 18, 2024:
17 replayable level 1 Bounties
4 replayable level 3 Bounties
8 replayable level 1-4 Quests
1 Replayable level 3-6 Quest
1 Replayable level 1 Scenario
2 Replayable level 1-2 Scenarios
9 Replayable level 1-4 Scenarios
3 Replayable level 3-6 Scenarios
2 Replayable level 5-8 Scenarios
2 Replayable Beginner Box Adventures

Additionally you get replays based on Glyphs and can buy additional ones with AcP.

Personally I think they've done a good job of balancing, make sure there's plenty of content for people to play, and prevent PFS from stagnating by everything being a replay.

That doesn't mean there's not room for adjustment and discussion. Maybe we should have a bit more, maybe we should have a bit less but starting with "Totally free replay should be the law of the land" I don't think gets us anywhere, nor does "no replay at all ever."

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I'll also acknowledge that it's been particularly problematic as groups continue to reform in meat space, with some of their community having continued to play via online methods while others did not. That creates extra challenges that we didn't have in the past.

Maybe we can hear from some organizers who've already gone through that process in 2022 and 2023 etc with some thoughts and advice.

Maybe the solution is more replay? Maybe it's better local community management and getting those people who stayed online to cycle into the GM seat more. Maybe it's expectation changing. I don't know.

[Cascade]

Pirate Rob wrote:

[url=https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qvq6?Because-PFS-Scenarios-are-not-replayable-for#23]Here[/url}

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I'll also acknowledge that it's been particularly problematic as groups continue to reform in meat space, with some of their community having continued to play via online methods while others did not. That creates extra challenges that we didn't have in the past.

Maybe we can hear from some organizers who've already gone through that process in 2022 and 2023 etc with some thoughts...

I get it...it's just been more difficult than I originally thought mixing new and old players together over something played a few years back...more so than just playing the intros over and over...

Edit...just looking at the copied threads...those are 10-14 years ago...

[Tim Emrick]

In my area, I am one of those players who was active in PFS 2E before COVID, stayed active online, and am still active now that we're trying to regrow in-person play. I've gone through the free replays that HQ awarded long-time players a couple years back, and am much more picky now about what I replay since it's 40 AcP a pop. So I play less often at my FLGS than I used to, because there are very few low-level older scenarios that I haven't played before, and we finally have enough novice regulars to make sure at least one table fires each week.

I simply don't see the appeal of grinding through the same repeatables over and over with every single PC you make, but I know those players exist. And I know they will happily burn all their AcP to replay certain other scenarios a ridiculous number of times, too. Probably the most immediate danger from those folks is when they sign up for multiple slots of the same brand-new repeatable (like a season intro) at a con, because that impacts how many other people (both old and new players) can play that scenario. But that's not something the repeatable/replay economy can really fix; only an organizer having a polite chat with them about being less greedy can do that.

[RedOrca]

I can run a scenario on Monday and then play it on Tuesday. By doing so, I not only have all of the player-facing knowledge, but all of the exact DCs, monster abilities, and adjustments fresh in my mind. In contrast, I could play #1-03 Escaping the Grave once in 2019 and be required to spend a replay to play it again in 2024. It feels like there should be a middle ground somewhere. Maybe something like this:

My Suggested Replay Rule wrote:

Once you play a non-repeatable adventure, you cannot play it again until one year has passed. Priority seating is granted for players who are playing an adventure for the first time. As always, replaying players should not reveal mechanics and plot, and should generally let the first-timers run the show.

For those concerned about player meta knowledge - a lot of that fades naturally after a year. Priority seating for first-timers gives everyone a chance to play each scenario. It should be considered acceptable for a GM to run a table for only four first-time players without feeling pressured to also seat two replayers. Players who spoil things should be handled like any disruptive player. (Anecdotally, I've had more trouble with spoilers from players who recently ran the scenario than from players spending a replay.) I'm not sure if the current replay system should exist on top of this, but that's something that could be adjusted.

There is an elephant in the room, though - website coding effort. I wouldn't want to overwhelm the already taxed developers, so if they change the replay rule, I'd suggest simply flagging everything as repeatable in the database and calling it a day. As others have pointed out, players already forget (or "forget") that they need to buy a replay, and VOs forget to tick the replay box. I doubt most people even notice or care about the errors. We're already operating on the honor system after all.