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In the bus with idle thoughts floating by,
I’ve always wondered why there aren’t more extraplanar AP’s in pathfinder, where the adventure takes place across multiple planes, rather than solely on Golarion or Golarion + one additional plane at the very end.
I’m a debit of a gaming immigrant here in that I originally started with D&D 3rd? edition and Magic:the gathering. I’m used to more planescaping/hopping than what’s at present. The extra planar setting material in pathfinder is pretty deep but seemingly under-utilized.
Looking forward to the Plane of Wood when my group plays WoWildwood, and I know Gatewalkers has some extra-planetary stuff. Am I alone here?
Creative Director
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The main reason why we haven't done a "all on other planes" Adventure Path is that we don't have a lot of lore, really, for many other planes. The adventure would need to do a lot of heavy lifting for building that plane's local lore and info, which can be done (we did this for the first several Adventure Paths back in the day before we published lore books at all, with Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, and Legacy of Fire), but that's a lot of extra work that had myself and some others working VERY long hours. I never quite ended up sleeping at the office, but there were a lot of days during those early times when I was working past midnight or right through multiple weekends in a row.
Today, we're much better at managing our workflow, and part of that is that we're much better at not biting off more than we can chew in cases like this.
Instead, what you often see us do is set parts of Adventure Paths on other planes, rather than entire Adventure Paths.
Furthermore, planar travel is traditionally better suited toward high-level play, so at low levels, it can be tricky to do other planar content. We've done it before, but it's still tricky.
Also, a Plane-Hopping campaign has a similar issue to any campaign where the PCs move from location to location—it makes it very difficult for them to get a home base, or to feel like they belong somewhere. It enforces the feeling of the PCs being without roots, and we've found that adventures that give the PCs a place to set down roots or feel like they're defending it generally are better received. An adventure set on another plane could easily solve this by only being set on one plane, of course. But that still puts us back in the position of having to build what's essentially a brand new campaign setting.
Also also, Golarion is the most popular of our areas to set adventures, because it's the most detailed and the most central. We risk making something that appeals to fewer potential customers whenever we drift too far from the standard fantasy expectations. We still do this plenty, of course, because it's great and important to stretch out into other areas... but it's much easier to do these things while we're on the same planet of Golarion.
And finally, it's a creative choice. The "explore strange new worlds (or planes)" genre isn't really the focus of Pathfinder—that's more the focus of Starfinder. Doesn't mean we can't flip the script there, but the creative choice of grounding most Pathfinder games on Golarion is 100% deliberate.
THAT ALL SAID: I'm always eager to hear from folks who want to see adventures set on other planes. What planes are you eager for us to visit? Would folks like to see an entire Adventure Path set on a different plane? Do folks prefer to be grounded in Golarion? Let us know!
Wrath of the Righteous has two whole books set on different realms of the Abyss.
Thx for the response and pardon the typos posted earlier!
I’m eclectic in that the plane I’m really into changes from month to month. I’d personally love to see an adventure set in one of the inner planes, or a city in the outer planes where mortals can exist and interact with their environment without immediately becoming murdered, corrupted, or enslaved. Something like Heaven’s Shore in Heaven, or a colony/city among the Elemental Planes, First World, Dreamlands, or Netherworld. These would work better both for low-to-higher-level play. Like, what is it like to be a mortal soul born or living beyond the Universe?
Your response James Jacobs makes sense, as I recall similar struggles among other worldbuilding companies, in the amount of extra time and resources needed to consider visiting a new setting.
I’m interested in hearing others’ thoughts, as maybe it’s just me. I admittedly get a lil planesick (pun intended) when I reach higher level play as a caster- yet remain unable to explore the wider Great Beyond, *without derailing most AP’s. However, I like the fact that most higher-level AP’s feature at least one extraplanar jaunt for PC’s to explore.
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I'm happy with the focus being firmly on Golarion itself, but Basrakal (in the Maelstrom) does cry out for a high-level AP about defending the city of misfit immortals.
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It may not fit some expectations of a full-on extraplanar AP, but a structure similar to Age of Ashes or the mini-adventures in Dark Archive might work; only with an actual "home base" where the PCs return after each mission to another plane. The set up might be tricky, however. Balancing the "home base" development/story tie-ins with the plane-hopping missions (as well as limiting the PCs from going way off track on the other planes) may be difficult to pull off (without it seeming as if the PCs are just along for the ride).
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Creative Director
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It may not fit some expectations of a full-on extraplanar AP, but a structure similar to Age of Ashes or the mini-adventures in Dark Archive might work; only with an actual "home base" where the PCs return after each mission to another plane. The set up might be tricky, however. Balancing the "home base" development/story tie-ins with the plane-hopping missions (as well as limiting the PCs from going way off track on the other planes) may be difficult to pull off (without it seeming as if the PCs are just along for the ride).
One of the REAL tricky parts I had to navigate in Age of Ashes' home base element was the simple fact that the details on that base were presented in one volume, the rules for expanding it in another, and beyond that it was a lot of hand waving. One of the unfortunate difficulties about presenting certain story concepts in a product that consists of separate parts—if you as a GM don't have volume 1, then you're kinda on your own. I do hope that GMs who run adventure paths DO have all the volumes, but that's not always the case. Putting that info in the first volume helps, but isn't a great solution.
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Another fun option for a Plane-Hopping home base is some kind of Plane-Hopping Craft with a crew of NPCs that can act as the "home village".
Its part of why I enjoyed Jade Regent originally, since the important NPCs basically moved with the players.
Whether it's a plane hopping chicken hut, some manner of plane-ship (perhaps a barge that sails the Styx?)
It'd be cool to do something that has extraplanar exploration, diplomacy and also maintains a cast of castaways.
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Another fun option for a Plane-Hopping home base is some kind of Plane-Hopping Craft with a crew of NPCs that can act as the "home village".
Its part of why I enjoyed Jade Regent originally, since the important NPCs basically moved with the players.
Whether it's a plane hopping chicken hut, some manner of plane-ship (perhaps a barge that sails the Styx?)
It'd be cool to do something that has extraplanar exploration, diplomacy and also maintains a cast of castaways.
Yeah, I feel like a planar skyship, floating fortress, or player base with a lot of portals would be the easiest way to solve the lack of a player base.
I also don’t get why exploration of new realms would be more limited to Starfinder than pathfinder. It’s a subjective creative decision for sure, but not one that seems player-driven per se. Furthermore, the faction for which the game is named after is explicitly a research and exploration-based institution.
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Creative Director
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I also don’t get why exploration of new realms would be more limited to Starfinder than pathfinder. It’s a subjective creative decision for sure, but not one that seems player-driven per se. Furthermore, the faction for which the game is named after is explicitly a research and exploration-based institution.
It's a creative choice driven by a desire to help each of the two games carve out their own identities. Doesn't mean we won't do "exploration of new realms" stories for Pathfinder, but the Star Trek model of world hopping is more at home in Starfinder.
It's a creative choice driven by a desire to help each of the two games carve out their own identities. Doesn't mean we won't do "exploration of new realms" stories for Pathfinder, but the Star Trek model of world hopping is more at home in Starfinder.I also don’t get why exploration of new realms would be more limited to Starfinder than pathfinder. It’s a subjective creative decision for sure, but not one that seems player-driven per se. Furthermore, the faction for which the game is named after is explicitly a research and exploration-based institution.
Thank-you for clarifying. To borrow from a meme, I guess I look forward to the “exploration of new realms” we have at home hahaha!