Quick Bomber + Double Brew

[yellowpete]

The new Quick Bomber reads:
"You keep your bombs and bomb-related reagents in easy-toreach pouches from which you draw without thinking. You Interact to draw a bomb, draw a versatile vial, or use Quick Alchemy to create a bomb, then Strike with the bomb. If you have the ability to create more than one bomb at a time with Quick Alchemy (such as from the double brew class feature), you can Strike with only one of the bombs you create with this action."

This doesn't seem to directly contradict doing something like creating both a bomb and an elixir via double brew, then tossing the former (as it's still true that I created a bomb). Is that an intented possibility, or does it mean to say that I can create nothing but bombs when using the feat?

[Old_Man_Robot]

I'm not 100% sure what your question is, my apologies, but a general run down of the chain is:

Quick Bomber allows you to do some combination of either:

A) - Get a bomb in hand via methods
- 1) Drawing a bomb you have already made, or
- 2) Drawing a versatile vial to use as a bomb, or
- 3) Using Quick Alchemy to create a bomb

And

B) - Throw the bomb you are now holding as a strike

All for a single action.

The referrence to double brew is in relation to that 3rd option on the list. Wherein you use quick alchemy to create a bomb.

Double Brew lets you create two items when you use Quick Alchemy, these don't have to be the same items.

Quick Bomber doesn't modify Double Brew in any way, it is simply saying that if you use Quick Alchemy to make a bomb, and you make two bombs via Double Brew, Quick Bomber only lets you throw one of them as part of the strike it grants.

[yellowpete]

Okay, so starting at level 9 it is intended that I can

1. action: Quick Bomber to create both a bomb (say, a quick vial) and an elixir, then throw the quick vial

2. action: drink the created elixir

?

The reason I ask is that if the feat is meant strictly as written, this seems to give an incentive to almost always also chuck out a vial whenever you primarily want to QA an elixir, no matter your competence with bombs – as the total action cost remains the same. That's a bit of a strange incentive, but I don't know if it's too strange to be true. The alternative would be for Quick Bomber to be intended to never create anything but bombs.

I know it's a question about intentions rather than text and so it's harder to answer definitively. I'd just like to hear what people think is more likely.

[Trip.H]

You are correct.

If you make + throw a Q-Vial in that first action, Double Brew will allow you to have any Quick Alch item in your other hand, ready to use.

This means you essentially must make + throw something in the first action, or that action is essentially wasted whenever you want to Q-Alch any not-bomb item.

Do note that all uses of Double Brew require you to have both hands open. The Q-Alch happens all at once, so you can't make + throw + make in order to only use 1 hand.

============

This bizarre and crazy potent 3:1 action compression is why I've been saying that the remaster "coerces all Alchemists into being Bombers."

If you are post L9 and throwing 0 VV Q-Vials "for free" with that double quick bomber combo, that's a big point of pressure to spend budget improving those (crappy/low dmg) bomb throws instead of trying to build the PC you want to.

Because if you don't want to do that new combo, you will "waste" an action every single time you use Quick Alchemy.

Only bomb throws are allowed to compress Q-Alch, and that SUCKS.

[Pixel Popper]

Trip.H wrote:

... Because if you don't want to do that new combo, you will "waste" an action every single time you use Quick Alchemy...

It's a matter of perception. If you choose to view the glass half empty, sure, but...

Not using a "freebie" action (i.e.: throw a bomb) does not equal wasting an action. Quick Alchemy (Double Brew 2 elixirs) + Drink + Drink is exactly the same as it was pre-Remaster.

There is some incentive, if you only need/want to create/drink a single elixir in a turn, to take advantage of the extra action compression of the new Quick Bomber: Quick Alchemy (Double Brew freebie vial and elixir and throw freebie vialbomb) + Drink + some third action. But you're not actually penalized if you Quick Alchemy a single elixir + Drink + something else. Not being rewarded is not the same as being penalized.

Quote:

Only bomb throws are allowed to compress Q-Alch, and that SUCKS.

That is a fair statement, tho.

[Trip.H]

Pixel Popper wrote:

[...] But you're not actually penalized if you Quick Alchemy a single elixir + Drink + something else. Not being rewarded is not the same as being penalized.

As nothing exists in a vacuum, "leaving power on the table", deciding to forgo power is to be mechanically penalized. You cannot understand the "freebie" nature of something like the Double Q-Bomber without also knowing there's something on the other side of that > symbol.

This Double Quick Bomber is perhaps the single most blatant example in the whole system. You can either throw a Q bomb... or literally do nothing in that same action.

There has never been a better example to showcase the concept.