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I got really excited thinking that Irabeth was being promoted to Iconic since she's the art used alongside the Guardian rules, but it seems like that's just placeholder art? Previous playtests have included sketches/pencils of their relevant Iconics alongside a blurb that gave some info about them, which is noticeably absent in this playtest doc.
I noticed that too and had a similar thought process.
I'm curious about the new Iconics.
Design Manager
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We'll be introducing the new iconics a little bit later on down the road. With our friends on the Starfinder side of the wall having their own mega playtest happening around GenCon, we shifted this one a little bit earlier in the cycle which means that our text production is a bit ahead of art at the moment.
Creative Director
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To expand a bit on Michael's response—we won't "promote" an established NPC to the status of iconic, because an iconic's story is flexible. They're stand-ins for your PCs in the art we publish. They have different stories told in different mediums like comic books, novels, web fiction, audio dramas, and the like, often stories that overlap. Kinda like if a player plays the same basic character in multiple different campaigns, if you like. I know I've done that plenty.
An NPC has a different role to play in the game. That doesn't mean they cant exemplify a PC build or adventuring concept—far from it! In fact, NPCs like Irabeth are a great way for us to build representation into the game and to explore in-world stories for people that we, as the creators of the adventures you play, can't do. They (or perhaps the gods) are the closes we can get to publishing details about the "main characters" of an adventure.
we shifted this one a little bit earlier in the cycle which means that our text production is a bit ahead of art at the moment.
Ahh, that explains it. Appreciate the quick response!
To expand a bit on Michael's response—we won't "promote" an established NPC to the status of iconic, because an iconic's story is flexible. They're stand-ins for your PCs in the art we publish.
That also makes sense. Got a bit ahead of myself when I was skimming through the doc and vocally shouted "IRABETH???" on the bus since I was so surprised lol. Likewise appreciate the response!
That doesn't mean they cant exemplify a PC build or adventuring concept—far from it! In fact, NPCs like Irabeth are a great way for us to build representation into the game and to explore in-world stories for people that we, as the creators of the adventures you play, can't do. They (or perhaps the gods) are the closes we can get to publishing details about the "main characters" of an adventure.
Out of curiosity, would this mean that if Irabeth shows up again in an Adventure Path for whatever reason, she'd be a Guardian instead of a Paladin? (or a Guardian-like character since NPCs are built differently from PCs)
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Creative Director
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That doesn't mean they cant exemplify a PC build or adventuring concept—far from it! In fact, NPCs like Irabeth are a great way for us to build representation into the game and to explore in-world stories for people that we, as the creators of the adventures you play, can't do. They (or perhaps the gods) are the closes we can get to publishing details about the "main characters" of an adventure.Out of curiosity, would this mean that if Irabeth shows up again in an Adventure Path for whatever reason, she'd be a Guardian instead of a Paladin? (or a Guardian-like character since NPCs are built differently from PCs)
In cases were I bring previous edition NPCs into a remasterd adventure, they're built as NPCs, not PCs... but I try to retain as much as their previously-established flavor as possible. Irabeth, in this example, would still be a paladin, because that's important for her character. (I wanted to show rather than tell that Pathfinder accepts queer half-orc paladins to the extent that we put her on the cover of the Adventure Path; that sort of thing is less unexpected from a tabletop RPG today than it was 11 years ago, in part, I like to think, because of that choice—that's also, by the way, why I put a lawful good gay paladin in the very first Pathfinder Adventure at the start of all this.)
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Creative Director
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To expand a bit on Michael's response—we won't "promote" an established NPC to the status of iconic, because an iconic's story is flexible.Careful, The Red Raven from 1e might dispute that claim.
Not every choice we've made for the game in the past 20 years or so is one we're forced to maintain. Sometimes, choices we make end up being things we decide not to maintain going forward, for various reasons.
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I just hope that Alain comes back. He is an ass, but he's our ass.
I think it'd be neat if some sort of design contest could be held for iconics of upcoming classes. Not this time, since it sounds like the iconics have already been made, but maybe in the future.