Echo (Disney+)

[DeathQuaker]

I know most of us have burned out a bit on discussing Marvel stuff, and I know I also tend to respond to most things I see by saying, "I liked it, it was fun!" (Which is genuinely true, but I recognize not always helpful.)

But seriously, guys, I liked this and it was... intense. And really, in my opinion, solidly good. Very much in the spirit of the Netflix shows but with better pacing. (The pacing could still have improved, but if this show had been a Netflix show, Maya would only just be learning of her powers at all in Episode 5).

I've been surprised to see so many people remark on this as meh or middling because coming from my more serious, likes-to-analyze-stories side of me, this had a lot of great narrative beats and interesting character arcs. On the entertainment side the acting is great all around. On the action side of things, really, really good fight choreography IMO (but I am not an expert on those things). And holy cow, Alaqua Cox is just amazing. Just amazing.

Apart from references to Hawkeye and the obvious presence of Kingpin, references to other Marvel series are minimal, and I think that actually does the show a huge favor. I like the idea of this "Marvel Spotlight" imprint and I think it may help Marvel if they want to keep making stuff. You don't have to watch a million movies and shows to understand what's happening here and that's a good thing.

If you haven't watched it, and you just want a good street-level hero story, and/or you don't care about anything else but need more Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin, watch it. I can't promise you'll love it as much as I did, as we are all different, but I think it's worth checking out and seeing for yourself.

[JoelF847]

I really enjoyed it. It was good all around. I can agree with the fact that they over marketed Daredevil's appearance (that would have been cooler as a surprise anyway).

My only real complaint is that it felt a bit like half of two thirds of a season only. I wanted to see more, and specifically see her go back to NYC with her newfound powers and perspective and continued to make her war on Kingpin and/or carving out her own place.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Pretty decent after three episodes. Much better than the other Marvel I've seen recently, which to be fair hasn't been all that much. Maya doesn't have Kamala's charm but I like the story and action better.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Finished it yesterday. I agree the show felt a bit short compared to other shows but I think that worked in its favor, since I've found most other Marvel shows to be overlong for the stories they tell.

To be brutally honest, a lot of the reason I actually bothered to watch it in the first place was to help the ratings for non-"white American male" stories and leads, and I would have watched it all the way through just to help out with that even if I didn't find the show particularly good. It was a pleasant surprise that the show was as good as it was. Not great, not anything I will revisit but a good enough show with serious bonus points for all the non-standard attributes compared to typical Hollywood productions.

[Quark Blast]

I tried to like it. I couldn't. It's just sooo poorly written - a real disservice to the actors, the lead especially. If anything they reached for could've been done better, I think leaning more into ASL and letting the uninitiated use subtitles would've been neat.

As usual, the Pitch Meeting rather nails the issues at a gloss. The Drinker, though more surly and less generally well received, gives fair criticism this time as well.

[BigNorseWolf]

zzzzzz

Kingpin, she turned down the job offer. Call up one of your billionaire buddies get her doing a job doing something she'd like and tap the next guy. You're working with a dozen other people willing to take a bullet for you, if none of them have an MBA send 4 of them to school and retire in 4 years.

Besides

Spoiler:

Offensive use of a healing spell to cure kingpins ..hole in his heart/ sociopathy?

I don't think there was anything interesting.

The main character is evil and I don't think I've seen anything to make me actually like them.

[DeathQuaker]

JoelF847 wrote:

I really enjoyed it. It was good all around. I can agree with the fact that they over marketed Daredevil's appearance (that would have been cooler as a surprise anyway).

My only real complaint is that it felt a bit like half of two thirds of a season only. I wanted to see more, and specifically see her go back to NYC with her newfound powers and perspective and continued to make her war on Kingpin and/or carving out her own place.

I thought I replied to this ages ago but wanted to say I agree on all points... I really was expecting a very different show than what we got. I really liked what we got, but I was originally expecting a few episodes in Tamaha and then returning to NYC to deal with Kingpin on his turf, and I'd like to see Echo back in that area as well.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Besides ** spoiler omitted **

I don't think she cured him of anything, per se, but quelled his rage somewhat, and since Kingpin's sense of self is buried in his rage, he temporarily lost sight of who he was. But that sets him up nicely to pursue his ambitions politically rather than in overt criminal warfare...

Quote:

The main character is evil and I don't think I've seen anything to make me actually like them.

The sentiment that she is simply "evil" is unfairly reductive, IMO. Yes, she was more or less a villainous wildcard at the start (as she was in Hawkeye, so that should have come as no surprise). Obvious the show puts her slowly toward a heel-face turn... I think she has a long way to go before I'd call her heroic, but I don't think "evil" is a fair label either.

But I LOVE comic book characters who are darkness with a bit of light so this is up my alley. If it ain't up yours that's fine--I can understand not wanting to follow a journey of someone who at first can seem so callous, no matter how tragic the backstory. Just noting I think there is merit in the complexity of the tale, including its morality, that shouldn't be overlooked in my opinion. There's a difference between saying "Character is too dark" and tarring with the broad "evil" brush.

==

The "Assembled" of this show was very interesting, and I was particularly interested to see the work they did on the practical effects, and what they did to make things accessible for the hearing impaired actors. Worth watching if one is interested in those kind of behind the scenes things. Plus the behind the scenes combat takes were fascinating--Alaqua Cox did a ton of s~@! I would have thought a stunt double would have taken on but nope... she is badass, man.