Buffing long exploration activities


Rules Discussion


The rules mention that downtime activities, due to their immense length, can only benefit from effects that apply constantly throughout the activity (or can be spammed so often that they might as well be constant). I can't find a similar rule for exploration activities, but is the same true for them? For instance, I can't use a Hero Point to Earn Income, but can I use a Hero Point to Treat Wounds?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't think there's a game mode limitation on when you can use Hero Points.

Many of the existing exploration activities like defend, or detect magic, give us some insight into how it is intended to work.

Depending on the effect being used, the point might be moot though, as its duration will have expired by the time you finish the exploration scene. That doesn't mean the effects didn't happen though.


Ravingdork wrote:
I don't think there's a game mode limitation on when you can use Hero Points.

There is, actually.

Some downtime activities require rolls, typically skill checks. Because these rolls represent the culmination of a series of tasks over a long period, players can't use most abilities or spells that manipulate die rolls, such as activating a magic item to gain a bonus or casting a fortune spell to roll twice. Constant benefits still apply, though, so someone might invest a magic item that gives them a bonus without requiring activation. You might make specific exceptions to this rule. If something could apply constantly, or so often that it might as well be constant, it's more likely to be used for downtime checks; for instance, Assurance could apply.

Fortune effects can't be used on downtime activities.

However, the rationale for this restriction - "Because these rolls represent the culmination of a series of tasks over a long period" - makes me think that it shouldn't apply to Exploration activities, which are a single, though complex and long-running activity.

In any case, a restriction on one mode of play shouldn't be automatically applied to other modes of play. If Exploration mode wasn't supposed to be able to use effects that modify dice roll results, then it should say so itself.

I have always seen Hero Points being allowed for Treat Wounds rolls.


Finoan wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I don't think there's a game mode limitation on when you can use Hero Points.

There is, actually.

Some downtime activities require rolls, typically skill checks. Because these rolls represent the culmination of a series of tasks over a long period, players can't use most abilities or spells that manipulate die rolls, such as activating a magic item to gain a bonus or casting a fortune spell to roll twice. Constant benefits still apply, though, so someone might invest a magic item that gives them a bonus without requiring activation. You might make specific exceptions to this rule. If something could apply constantly, or so often that it might as well be constant, it's more likely to be used for downtime checks; for instance, Assurance could apply.

Fortune effects can't be used on downtime activities.

However, the rationale for this restriction - "Because these rolls represent the culmination of a series of tasks over a long period" - makes me think that it shouldn't apply to Exploration activities, which are a single, though complex and long-running activity.

In any case, a restriction on one mode of play shouldn't be automatically applied to other modes of play. If Exploration mode wasn't supposed to be able to use effects that modify dice roll results, then it should say so itself.

I have always seen Hero Points being allowed for Treat Wounds rolls.

I swore there was a blanket ban on fortune effects for downtime activities, but the rule you cited only mentions fortune spells. Hero points seem like fair game without additional text.


The reason hero points can't be used during downtime is because they expire at the end of the session


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Baarogue wrote:
The reason hero points can't be used during downtime is because they expire at the end of the session

How does one have downtime without the game???


Ravingdork wrote:
Baarogue wrote:
The reason hero points can't be used during downtime is because they expire at the end of the session
How does one have downtime without the game???

do some reading. See if you can figure out what a session is

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=501


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Ravingdork wrote:
Baarogue wrote:
The reason hero points can't be used during downtime is because they expire at the end of the session
How does one have downtime without the game???

Yeah, that doesn't track at all.

Personally, I allow hero points for downtime activities. Rituals, for example, have high DCs, require a lot of table time to figure out access and DCs, and cost a lot of character time to actually cast them. Not giving players a bit of cushion there is cruel. Besides, hero points are a meta currency designed to let players exert a little more control on the narrative, as opposed to an in universe action like Halfling Luck. You should be able to use them on pivotal moments like conducting the ritual to resurrect a treasured ally.


Baarogue wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Baarogue wrote:
The reason hero points can't be used during downtime is because they expire at the end of the session
How does one have downtime without the game???

do some reading. See if you can figure out what a session is

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=501

I'm seriously questioning if you do right now.


Captain Morgan wrote:


I swore there was a blanket ban on fortune effects for downtime activities, but the rule you cited only mentions fortune spells. Hero points seem like fair game without additional text.

The rule gives Fortune effect spells as an example. But don't mistake a non-exhaustive list of examples for an exhaustive description of the rule itself.

The rule forbids "most abilities or spells that manipulate dice rolls". Halfling Luck would similarly be unavailable for Downtime checks even though it is also not a spell.


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As a PFS player, I'm usually trusted to handle my downtime on my own time, after the session is over. So the question of whether Hero Points work in downtime is usually moot for me, because Hero Points don't exist between sessions. But it is a fortune effect that isn't long-lasting or spammable, so I reason that it can't be used on downtime either way. Wait, what? Crit fail?? Why did I have to roll twice and take the lower result?

Grim Reaper: I've been standing here for 8 hours waiting for you to notice me.

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